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I've been working away but I thought I heard , on a scratchy transistor radio, that Menezes was wearing a lightweight denim jacket.

Anyone else hear that ?

 

Edit;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,...1537457,00.html

 

Relatives say Met admits that, contrary to reports, electrician did not leap tube station barrier

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Using a stun gun on a suspected suicide bomber was an "incredible risk", Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair has said.

 

Police said a Taser device was used during the arrest of the 21 July failed Tube bombings suspect Yasin Hassan Omar in Birmingham on Wednesday.

 

Sir Ian said such action was not "policy" but the officers may have made sure there was no bomb present.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4726485.stm

 

What we have here is a man actually condemning a safe arrest instead of an execution.

Edited by moon
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:P

 

moon my old China Plate, the UK is at War, against Terrorists.

 

The recent things about the IRA show it out so well! The UK is Uniting and God help anyoe that even LOOKS like a Bomber. I personallly am all for it, here my attitude is well kown, if I saw someone acting in a funny way, particularly with a BackPack, or with an overcoat on, guess I would do something about it, if it was about where Kids where, God help them.

 

Even the Net is not safe these days, in relation to Terrorists, this Link sent today, should make all of us Think, before we Post?

 

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=3402

 

Unfortunately the War is VERY Global, with more resources than ever being expended on it, This one the World HAS to WIN, no individual Country, just the World!

 

:beer: :beer:

Edited by Drovers Dog
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well they have the entire swat team surrounding some building in Notting Hill and they have been shouting at the man to come out for the better part of thirty minutes and the dude is not coming out. its a suspect from the 7/21 bombings. it will be interesting to see what happens as far as the swat team firing on the suspect once they are inside.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/29...tube/index.html

 

they have asked a dozen times does he understand. they have requested for thirty minutes he surrender. guns are drawn.

 

edit-- i guess my curiousity is that the man is a suspected suicide bomber, we already know hes not opposed to dying, how long should the cops mess around with this man before they do fire on him or something of that nature? people have been evacuated from thier homes, looks like half the police force is there.... etc.

 

update: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164050,00.html.

Edited by Angela
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IMO it is sad that this world has resorted to thinking like this.

 

God help anyoe that even LOOKS like a Bomber

 

if I saw someone acting in a funny way, particularly with a BackPack, or with an overcoat on, guess I would do something about it, if it was about where Kids where, God help them.

Personally, I cant think of anything sadder then this. Unless I misunderstood you are condoning killing people for acting funny, particularly with a backpack, or with an overcoat on.

 

And before I am attacked personally I am just stating my opinion. I am entitled to it as you are. you have a right to feel that way and I am not going to try tell you its wrong. Please respect mine.

 

I might not have answers on how to fix this terrorist issue but that doesnt mean I cant have an opinion on what I DONT think is right.

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edit-- i guess my curiousity is that the man is a suspected suicide bomber, we already know hes not opposed to dying, how long should the cops mess around with this man before they do fire on him or something of that nature? people have been evacuated from thier homes, looks like half the police force is there.... etc.

 

 

He is an innocent man and they should only fire if there is a direct KNOWN threat to them or anyone else. I hope they never fire a shot
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but hes a suspected suicide bomber and they say thier intelligence is good and hes got a flat full of explosives. dont fire?

doesnt matter Angela. I will speak of American law but in this country you are INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty.

 

Dont fire unless there is no other option.

 

He is a human being and if he did anything like what they suspect him to have done then he should pay the highest price our system allows. Killing him because he is suspected of being a bomber is not in our laws as far as I know

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IMO it is sad that this world has resorted to thinking like this.

 

 

 

Personally, I cant think of anything sadder then this. Unless I misunderstood you are condoning killing people for acting funny, particularly with a backpack, or with an overcoat on.

 

And before I am attacked personally I am just stating my opinion. I am entitled to it as you are. you have a right to feel that way and I am not going to try tell you its wrong. Please respect mine.

 

I might not have answers on how to fix this terrorist issue but that doesnt mean I cant have an opinion on what I DONT think is right.

:P

 

Mate,

 

I really understand how you feel, I really am not trying to attack noone!

 

During Nam there was a Picture of a Kid fleeing a Village that had just been hit by Napalm, Mate! It changed the Thinking of the World then!

 

What is happening now is a bit like Nam, but the whole World is involved now!

 

In War people get hurt, end of Story!

 

Hope you can understand from where I am coming from?

 

Maybe a few innocent lives have to be lost, just like in all Wars, Mate, so the Battles can stop?

 

:beer: :beer:

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He is a human being and if he did anything like what they suspect him to have done then he should pay the highest price our system allows. Killing him because he is suspected of being a bomber is not in our laws as far as I know

im sure that is a good portion of my personal problem with the issue, if he is a suicide bomber than to me hes not human and totally disposable.

 

but i do agree better to take them alive, you can maybe convince them to talk.

 

if the man has explosives and he is give enough time to get them together while the police play footsie with him, then the swat team finally rushes the building, he detonates said explosives, a whole building of people are now homeless, suspect dead, the swat team dead, etc, etc, etc, etc.

 

thats no good either.

 

like you i dont have any answers. i wont condone shooting a man who is restrained eight times and i cant condone this i see this morning either.

 

and DD, only you could find a way to compare this to vietnam. :rolleyes:

Edited by Angela
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:P

 

Mate,

 

I really understand how you feel, I really am not trying to attack noone!

 

During Nam there was a Picture of a Kid fleeing a Village that had just been hit by Napalm, Mate! It changed the Thinking of the World then!

 

What is happening now is a bit like Nam, but the whole World is involved now!

 

In War people get hurt, end of Story!

 

Hope you can understand from where I am coming from?

 

Maybe a few innocent lives have to be lost, just like in all Wars, Mate, so the Battles can stop?

 

:beer:  :beer:

I do understand where you are coming from and I am probably as frustated as you in regards to terrorism

 

I just think Human life is sacred and if we start killing people for being suspicious we are as bad as the terrorists. If the terrorists kill people they should be punished. If we kill our own people in the name or protecting ourselves, then we are as bad as them (IMO).

 

Innocent Human life is lost during war when there is no other choice (IMO). I know that doesnt always happen but I am not going to condone killing of innocent people in the name of safety. The cops could think you are acting suspicious and carrying a backpack and kill you. It would be wrong. People would fear the police. and every person who dies who is innocent would have lost his rights.

 

DD - Thanks for your lucid response. I do know where you are coming from. I just disagree with the degree your willing to accept

Edited by hftmrock
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, if he is a suicide bomber than to me hes not human and totally disposable. 

 

 

I disagree with this. Every life is important.

 

and the keyword here is "IF"

 

Just to give you my take on human life

 

If they busted in to Hitlers house and absolutely knew what he did, they still should capture him, put him on trial and if/when found guilty, give him the highest sentence that the law allows.

 

We have laws for a reason and if we are to be a democracy, then we need to follow our own laws as they are written

Edited by hftmrock
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If they busted in to Hitlers house and absolutely knew what he did, they still should capture him, put him on trial and if/when found guilty, give him the highest sentence that the law allows.

 

i agree its always better to take them alive. but tell me, where do we draw the line, what IS a good enough reason to take them out? cause right now dude is endangering the entire swat team, members of the british military, the local pd, reporters, other innocent bystanders and the homes of a dozen neighbors.
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i agree its always better to take them alive. but tell me, where do we draw the line, what IS a good enough reason to take them out? cause right now dude is endangering the entire swat team, members of the british military, the local pd, reporters, other innocent bystanders and the homes of a dozen neighbors.

when they feel they have no other choice. It should be a last resort.
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EXACTLY. and no im not saying it was ok to kill the guy in the subway.

 

but they should have dropped this yahoo an hour ago.

so he has no rights?

 

if he comes out with his hands up now they should blow him away because he is suspected of doing awful things????

 

interesting position

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if he comes out with his hands up now they should blow him away because he is suspected of doing awful things????

 

 

absolutly not. surrendering suspects should never be fired on if they keep thier hands up and are able to be safely detained.

 

failure to surrender after negotiation and time is grounds for firing in my opinion.

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I do understand where you are coming from and I am probably as frustated as you in regards to terrorism

 

I just think Human life is sacred and if we start killing people for being suspicious we are as bad as the terrorists. If the terrorists kill people they should be punished. If we kill our own people in the name or protecting ourselves, then we are as bad as them (IMO).

 

Innocent Human life is lost during war when there is no other choice (IMO). I know that doesnt always happen but I am not going to condone killing of innocent people in the name of safety. The cops could think you are acting suspicious and carrying a backpack and kill you. It would be wrong. People would fear the police. and every person who dies who is innocent would have lost his rights.

 

DD - Thanks for your lucid response. I do know where you are coming from. I just disagree with the degree your willing to accept

:P

 

Now that you understand that I am really serious about this? Maybe we could have a nice Discussion?

 

War on Terrorists was Declared by GWB after 9/11? He only cited Bin Laden.

 

Since then it has escallated into full on Invasion of two Countries?

 

In the meantime, the World just has got quitely about it's Business.

 

The Terrorists have had a Field Day, taking out one Target after another?

 

Now they have hit London! Bad Mistake, Mate! The British Lion is a Funny Thing, Argentina found out that during the Falkems War.

 

The World is coming around to meet the Threat these people Pose, this is War! Mate.

 

:beer: :beer:

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absolutly not. surrendering suspects should never be fired on if they keep thier hands up and are able to be safely detained.

 

failure to surrender after negotiation and time is grounds for firing in my opinion.

why?

 

but they should have dropped this yahoo an hour ago.

 

but hes a suspected suicide bomber and they say thier intelligence is good and hes got a flat full of explosives. dont fire?

 

Why not rid the world of this guy???? He's horrible right??? why waste time?

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Why not rid the world of this guy???? He's horrible right??? why waste time?

im a bit unsure how your defending him. they arrested people who said the man made bombs and is a real bad guy. then they did thier own investigations and went over there and they thought it warranted the swat team, the military, the cops, etc, etc, etc.

 

yeah, rid the world. im sorry, thats how i feel. he has not made one move toward surrender in the two hours ive been awake and this was going on before that.

 

edit- it appears that the ARMED suspects have been arrested although that news seems sketchy so far.

Edited by Angela
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:P

 

You know?

 

There is a BIG World outside the USA?

 

What the Rest of the World does about Terrorists does not have to comply with the Americian Constitution, just the Rules of War, as long as the other Side follow them!

 

:beer: :beer:

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im a bit unsure how your defending him. they arrested people who said the man made bombs and is a real bad guy. then they did thier own investigations and went over there and they thought it warranted the swat team, the military, the cops, etc, etc, etc.

 

yeah, rid the world. im sorry, thats how i feel. he has not made one move toward surrender in the two hours ive been awake and this was going on before that.

 

edit- it appears that the ARMED suspects have been arrested although that news seems sketchy so far.

its funny how are laws are. No matter what the individual person or the police or the intelligence they have on someone, they are innocent until proven guilty. This keep police officers, decision makers and intellegence gathering from making mistakes.

 

I believe if you asked the police prior to the shooting of Mendez if they had the right amount of evidence to believe he was a suicide bomber they would have told you that they definately did. It was wrong.

 

 

I am defending him because in America this man currently is 100% innocent and has done nothing wrong but not come out of his house. you can charge him with whatever you want. he has not committed any crime yet. (maybe resisting arrest)

 

thats what I feel.

 

we agree to disagree.

 

no worries

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:P

 

You know?

 

There is a BIG World outside the USA?

 

What the Rest of the World does about Terrorists does not have to comply with the Americian Constitution, just the Rules of War, as long as the other Side follow them!

 

:beer: :beer:

Absolutely true.

 

IS a man innocent until proven guilty in your country? If not, then I suspect it would be ok there?

 

Is a man innocent until proven guilty in London? I dont know. If not then maybe they just kill this guy and Mendez should have been killed.

 

then I dont blame anyone. I just feel the law is wrong.

 

 

Good point DD

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