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Are the Minuteman the answer?


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If Mexico is like most EU and African countries, a lot of the talented medical people have left for higher wages elsewhere anyway. That wants looking at.

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If Mexico is like most EU and African countries, a lot of the talented medical people have left for higher wages elsewhere anyway.  That wants looking at.

Mexico, like many Latin American countries holds their doctors as virtual hostages. They are forced into servitude sometimes for a certain number of years and sometimes forever.

 

In Mexico they "owe" a certain number of years to Mexico after they complete their education.

 

The problem in many of those countries isn't really a lack of good doctors, it's a lack of facilities, materials, and infrastructure. Mexico is no exception.

 

It is like the UK NHS in this regard though, although the NHS isn't nearly as bad. Medical education in the UK is excellent and there are many excellent and very talented doctors in the UK in spite of the financial enticements to come to the US. But the lack of facilities are constantly holding back patient care.

 

The waiting list for many surgeries is a good example of this. Very often the operating theaters sit idle while patients wait. There are surgeons and staff available but no supplies. An entire wing of one of the hospitals I was at sat empty. They had no money to equip it, there weren't even beds in it. They could staff it, but they couldn't equip it.

 

 

The resources necessary to support hospitals and clinics go far beyond the doctors and nurses, and those supplies are a huge industry that is hugely overpriced.

 

As far as citing pregnant mothers coming over the borders that is one specific type of case and is not actually a very big part of the problem as far as I can tell, but it does strikingly describe the nature of the problems on their side of the border. They are desperate.

 

Citing welfare fraud would seem to be fruitless as well. From what I have been able to dig up the rate of welfare fraud aming the illegals is actually lower than it is among Ameicans, that's embarrassing.

 

 

Our laws are not unjust regarding immigration, there is nothing wrong with enforcing them.

 

We do have fairly low unemployment in general, but not low enough to allow a free influx of labor. The real effect of illegals on anybodies individual taxes is really negligible. The raw numbers are often quoted and look scary but in the overall scheme they are easily absorbed. The real point is that in order to protect the infrastructure and the economy in general as they are we must enforce immigration law.

 

There are many places in the world where that isn't true, they rely on the cheap labor forces that illegal immigrants provide and their economies would collapsewithout it. The US is far from such a nation. In fact I tend to believe the opposite is true. The US would suffer a great deal if subjected to a free influx of such labor.

Edited by Chopdoc
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How about dedicating a portion of our tithe to regulating the way in which it's spent? A radical proposition I know, but it has worked in the past.

 

I

i would support that idea. but i still would not want one red cent to go to support people in the united states illegally. it is what it is to me. if i steal im a thief and i will be punished if i get caught. if i kill, im a murderer, and on and on and on.

 

if you sneak across the border your an intruder.

 

id rather my money go to help a student here on foreign exchange get medicine, or the struggling mom in anywhere,usa....regardless of her nationality. if you have taken the time to follow the process, come here the right way, im all about welcome to america, how can i help you? what can i do to ease your transition? i feel that way about dual citizenship as well. just do it right.

 

i would encourage anyone whos not been to one to attend a naturalization ceremony. those people made it here legally and took the necessary steps however hard it might have been. im proud those people are americans.

 

Our laws are not unjust regarding immigration, there is nothing wrong with enforcing them.

:tup:

Edited by Angela
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Our laws are not unjust regarding immigration, there is nothing wrong with enforcing them.

Of course not, as long as the enforcement is in the hands of the qualified authority.
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Of course not, as long as the enforcement is in the hands of the qualified authority.

It is.

 

The Minutemen are not the enforcers, they turn them over to the enforcers. The United States is a nation owned, governed, and operated by the People. The People in the United States are necessarily and by definition qualified to function in the capacity that the Minutemen are functioning in this country. The only problem as I see it is the high potential for abuse of that authority in this case.

 

 

I know it is difficult for many outside the US to understand that, but that is no surprise. Although many countries have put democracies in place, none as yet has the ideal of the People placed first the way the US has. It is in fact not just a right of the People in the US, it is a duty as outlined by our founding documents.

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i would support that idea. but i still would not want one red cent to go to support people in the united states illegally. it is what it is to me. if i steal im a thief and i will be punished if i get caught. if i kill, im a murderer, and on and on and on.

 

 

I can absolutely understand that people would feel that way about their taxes, but their tithe?

 

I would think that what is given to the church is blind to politics, race, etc, or at least is supposed to be. Would that not be the "good" Christian way?

Does not Christianity transcend these issues?

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The Minutemen are not the enforcers, they turn them over to the enforcers

And by their divine perception they are able to distinguish at a glance that which a court would debate to decide ?

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It is in fact not just a right of the People in the US, it is a duty as outlined by our founding documents.

its no different than citizens arrest or keeping the robber in your home until the cops get there.

 

it is our right to do these things. it is our right to step up where congress wont, it is our right to try to fix the problem ourselves. I, as an american, am deeply ashamed that the INS is so incompetent and so useless.

 

being a supporter of sealing both borders air tight the minutemen are the answer to at least enforcing the laws we do have.

 

if i lived in a north or south bordering state, id volunteer my time.

 

no moon, they cant do that, they can detain people sneaking over the border. courts already decided thats a crime.

Edited by Angela
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And by their divine perception they are able to distinguish at a glance that which a court would debate to decide ?

:lol:

 

Moon. They are posted at the borders. If they see people crossing....they don't need a court to turn them in to the border patrol.

 

It illegal to sross that way....for anybody....even an American.....so it's hardly a difficult thing to decide on the spot to turn them in.

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Does not Christianity transcend these issues?

yeah, it does. but i cant think of a church that funds congressional money to illegal causes.

 

i think the true bottom line here is that it is a priviladge to be an american, not anyones right.

 

fill out the paper work, go through the checks, then reap the benefits.

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if i lived in a north or south bordering state, id volunteer my time.

A generosity receiving mixed reception from backpackers, hermits and other privacy-loving persons, I'm sure.

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if i kill, im a murderer, and on and on and on.

 

if you sneak across the border your an intruder. 

 

 

:P

 

Minutemen are different?

 

To Arrest is one thing, to Kill another!

 

Guess when a Joe Blake (Snake) comes slithering by your foot, you got a Shotgun, Mate, guess you can blow him away, together with your feet! Better to just get a stick and kill it, Mate, at least then you still got feet?

 

:beer: :beer:

Edited by Drovers Dog
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its no different than citizens arrest or keeping the robber in your home until the cops get there.

 

it is our right to do these things. it is our right to step up where congress wont, it is our right to try to fix the problem ourselves. I, as an american, am deeply ashamed that the INS is so incompetent and so useless.

 

being a supporter of sealing both borders air tight the minutemen are the answer to at least enforcing the laws we do have.

 

if i lived in a north or south bordering state, id volunteer my time.

 

no moon, they cant do that, they can detain people sneaking over the border. courts already decided thats a crime.

I am happy that we agree on the point of it being a right and duty of Americans.

 

 

I still caution that the potential for abuse is high.

 

Many of these people are posted in remote areas.....they need to have a strong conscience and do what is right because there is nobody to oversee them.

 

If even one of them does something brash it will be a major international incident and I would have little sympathy for them or their organization. They need to be damn serious about this.

 

 

Frankly, if I were in a location convenient enough, I would participate in this myself. I really would. I have to admit that I might be suspicious of the motives of some doing it though. I have heard the hateful talk too much. I am afraid that at least a few of them might be looking for the right time to get a ":filtered:" in their sights and pull the trigger.

 

One thing that cannot be overlooked is that although the illegals are for the most part really not much fuss to detain, some of them are criminals. Some of them are moving drugs. One or two Minutemen against a well armed and desperate drug runner would be a nightmare. It can easily happen. In that case it is no longer a case of detaining somebody, it is no longer a case of defending the border, it is an immediate and serious matter of defending your life.

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:P

 

Minutemen are different?

 

To Arrest is one thing, to Kill another!

 

:beer: :beer:

Where did that come from?

 

The minutemen arent killing anybody. They detain people crossing the border.

 

 

Do you have some higher insight than the rest of us to see that if they kill somebody it is murder? I don't think so.

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If even one of them does something brash it will be a major international incident and I would have little sympathy for them or their organization. They need to be damn serious about this.

 

 

 

agreed 100%

 

have to work within the confines of the law. they seem committed to doing that.

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One or two Minutemen against a well armed and desperate drug runner would be a nightmare.

As would be the odd hermit against a 4x4 stocked with well-armed and desperate Minutemen.

 

 

They need to be damn serious about this.

Trained troops can't even hack it. The idea is repugnant. Edited by moon
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Where did that come from?

 

The minutemen arent killing anybody.  They detain people crossing the border.

 

 

Do you have some higher insight than the rest of us to see that if they kill somebody it is murder?  I don't think so.

:P

 

Actually I got interested in this Thread back when people were talking about burying people, go figure!

 

Would you like Links to that?

 

:beer:

Edited by Drovers Dog
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As would be the odd hermit against a 4x4 stocked with well-armed and desperate Minutemen.

why would you think that someone swimming across the rio grande would be a hermit?

 

with thier children at 4 a.m.? just out for a family swim?

 

or someone hiding in a ditch full of weeds? or running across the border of two countries?

 

i would venture to guess that if asked any legitamate citizen would at least have proper ID and the minutemen would simply tell them thanks and carry on.

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As would be the odd hermit against a 4x4 stocked with well-armed and desperate Minutemen.

:rolleyes:

 

 

Oh please, would you stop with the hermits?

 

Come on over to the US and see how the people who live in isolation actually are.

 

To be honest with you if you put the average American hermit up against a pickup truck full of trigger happy rednecks my money would be on the hermit.

 

Anybody who lives here knows well that when you come upon somebody in the wilderness you move with caution. Just one of those "hermits" is probably better armed than a platoon of Royal Marines.

 

Heck, I live alone and could well arm a squad, and I am locked and loaded and ready to rock....and I ain't even near any wilderness......

 

 

Don't you worry about the hermits moon, they are American hermits. ;)

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:rolleyes:

 

 

Oh please, would you stop with the hermits?

 

Come on over to the US and see how the people who live in isolation actually are.

 

To be honest with you if you put the average American hermit up against a pickup truck full of trigger happy rednecks my money would be on the hermit.

 

Anybody who lives here knows well that when you come upon somebody in the wilderness you move with caution. Just one of those "hermits" is probably better armed than a platoon of Royal Marines.

 

Heck, I live alone and could well arm a squad, and I am locked and loaded and ready to rock....and I ain't even near any wilderness......

 

 

Don't you worry about the hermits moon, they are American hermits. ;)

:P

 

God, Chop,

 

You got some ediminackion coming when you get to AussieLand, Mate!

 

We only use Guns to Kill with, Mate!

 

Mostly we just use what is close and handy!

 

Nice green stick does heaps of Damage, Mate, doesn't hurt your Mates either!

 

:beer:

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Come on over to the US and see how the people who live in isolation actually are.

 

:lol:

 

I ain't going nowhere near the US until you change your gun laws.

 

 

My knowledge of it stems mainly from movies. I see Charles Bronson ( Mr. Majestik) defending a Mexican's right to use a wayside toilet. No way would I give the OK to vigilante policing of a wayside toilet, let alone a border. :lol:

If my view is skew-wiff then it's Hollywood's fault.

Edited by moon
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To be honest with you if you put the average American hermit up against a pickup truck full of trigger happy rednecks my money would be on the hermit.

 

 

:tup: :beer:

 

think eric rudolph. eluded federal authorities how long? exactly.

 

moon there are organizations in this country that think we should install water stations in the desert for illegal aliens to drink from when they break the law and sneak into our country cause they die regularly from dehydration trecking across the desert.

 

absolute bs.

 

its like saying we should have the air conditioner on in the bank so the robber does not get sweaty when he is robbing it.

 

our government has failed to secure and fix the problem at our borders. its up to us now.

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OK angela, I'll engage in direct conversation with you, even though you called me 'ignorant' in a previous thread. Edit required, I'd suggest.

 

 

The comparisons you attempt to draw are humanitarian on the one hand and ludicrous on the other. We don't let boat-people drown and we don't even deny medical assistance to wounded bank-robbers. If these people die of dehydration, and they are not going to stop coming voluntarily , then a drink in the desert seems like the decent thing to provide.

You can kick the :filtered: out of them and bang them up later.

 

Edit;

Appealing to your maternal instincts, as you have started a thread complaining about American healthcare for your daughter, some of these people might have children with them who took no part in the decision-making process.

I hope your daughter has recovered, incidentally.

Edited by moon
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moon there are organizations in this country that think we should install water stations in the desert for illegal aliens to drink from when they break the law and sneak into our country cause they die regularly from dehydration trecking across the desert.

 

 

 

 

:P

 

Angelia,

 

Aussies spend a Fortune just to help out the Boat People.

 

If we don't catch them before they land, they are Dead!

 

Come on Down to see it! 80% of our Coast is unguarded! For a good reason, Mate!

Land there, you die!

 

:beer: :beer:

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