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Earthquake In Indonesia


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I have read a great deal on the subject already and am quite prepared.

 

Whare would you like to start?

 

It would probably be better to start another thread than to hijack this one though.

 

 

Edit: And by the way, I am getting ready to leave for work, don't be so impatient. I am multitasking when I am on this board and most often doing several other things. Once I get settled in at work I will check back.

:P

 

As you know, Chop, I am very Patient!

 

:mrgreen::mrgreen::rolleyes::lol:

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How does one warn another of impending tragedy if the one in danger chooses not to be part of an international community?

 

Officials in Thailand and Indonesia conceded that immediate public warnings of gigantic waves could have saved lives. The only known warning issued by Thai authorities reached resort operators when it was too late. The waves hit Sri Lanka and India more than two hours after the quake.

 

But governments insisted they couldn’t have known the true danger because there is no international system in place to track tsunamis in the Indian Ocean, and they could not afford the sophisticated equipment to build one.

An international tsunami warning system was started in 1965, after the Alaska quake, designed to advise coastal communities of a potentially killer wave.

 

Member states include all the major Pacific Rim nations in North America, Asia and South America. But because tsunamis are rare in the Indian Ocean, India and Sri Lanka are not part of the system. Scientists said the death toll would have been reduced if they had been.

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Yes this has been a very tragic event (no worse imo than those lives taken by volcanic eruptions claiming thousands of innocent lives in recent years). But if you want to cast blame upon someone, then point your finger first towards the governments of those countries involved. I can't imagine a worse feeling than what some of those scientist must have felt knowing of the impending devastation and unable to do anything about it to save lives because of political protocol and alliances.

 

At some point in my life, I truly hope we can develope an international community solely devoted to avert natural disaster human devastation as much as possible, one which can put aside political alliances, religious beliefs and racist motivations to benefit our common factor - humankind.

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I can't imagine a worse feeling than what some of those scientist must have felt knowing of the impending devastation and unable to do anything about it to save lives because of political protocol and alliances.

 

 

Unable?

 

I don't buy that.

 

They were not wearing their thinking caps.

 

 

A message with a name and city on it sent to an email address somewhere physically closer to the recipient with a request to get it closer to the person will get there. This was proven to take 17 hours on average.

 

That is just using the average joe to relay it. These are scientists with contacts at Universities, laboratories, etc. I feel confident that in a serious emnergency they could get a message to a specific office in less than 30 minutes.

 

Heck, even if they were not thinking they could just call CNN. They have people and offices all over the world. One broadcast would go around the world in seconds...l

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Have the geologists mentioned the 3 stations used to measure the 'P' and 'S' waves and obtain the magnitude and epicenter of this earthquake????

 

This should tell how much of an advanced warning they received for this disaster.

 

I think that by the time they saw it it on the sesmographs, it was too late too do anything about it.

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Have the geologists mentioned the 3 stations used to measure the 'P' and 'S' waves and obtain the magnitude and epicenter of this earthquake????

 

This should tell how much of an advanced warning they received for this disaster.

 

I think that by the time they saw it it on the sesmographs, it was too late too do anything about it.

The fact is that even with the best current technology and no hesitation or glitches there would be relatively little warning for such a thing. What I cannot accept is scientists saying they didn't have a contact in their address book.

 

Right now a big problem with warning systems is false positives. There have already been cases where people have ignored warnings because of too many false positives. It basically means that you have to have enough confirmation, and that takes time, very valuable time. A false warning itself can claim lives and costs a great deal of money.

 

 

I'm willing to bet that if we put a serious emergency request on this board to contact a specific person in a foreign land we could get it done in under 30 minutes.

 

Word travels fast on the net.

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Word travels fast on the net.

Most people in this part of the world have never heard of the 'net' let alone ever used a computer, so who do you contact in southeast asia to warn them about something like this?

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Most people in this part of the world have never heard of the 'net' let alone ever used a computer, so who do you contact in southeast asia to warn them about something like this?

You're joking right? You think there is no internet in that entire region?

 

Who? Well, that would best be left to somebody knowledgeable in the field.

 

If it were left to me right now and you gave me a few minutes to make up my mind I am sure I would come up with several individuals and institutions to get a message to ASAP.

 

Do you really not believe that?

 

Over a year ago there was an experiment that proved you could get a message to just about anywhere in the world within 17 hours, and that was with much less to go on than we would have in these circumstances.

 

How about contacting their Universities, police departments, post offices, fire departments, any government offices, schools....

 

Heck, somebody will get somebody to talk to you, especially in the academic circles.

 

My estimate, if it were really serious (such as in this case), is 30 minutes.

 

But here is the kicker my friend: they didn't even try!

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Most people in this part of the world have never heard of the 'net' let alone ever used a computer, so who do you contact in southeast asia to warn them about something like this?

According to CD, they should contact CNN - Civilian N-ternational Notifiers

 

Re CD:

Unable in an Official capacity. I didn't think I had to clarify that point to the people of this board, most understand chain of command, political claptrap, etc. For all you and I both know, those scientists did say something to someone, somewhere and Common Joe let the ball drop and didn't pass it on to his high placed contacts. I found it enlightening you so quickly blamed the scientists who can predict such events, rather than the insensible warning system guidelines that excluded the Indian Ocean area due to political and financial reasons.

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:erm: the death toll is now over 44,000. Now the race is on to try to recover all the dead they can to prevent illness to the survivors. The UN said this will be the biggest relief effort the world has ever seen. I am so glad they are getting help. Everytime I see this on tv it makes me cry because of all those poor people looking for family, some have to identify from them from pictures they take of the victims as they find them. So pitiful and sad... my heart goes out to them all.
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According to CD, they should contact CNN - Civilian N-ternational Notifiers

 

Re CD:

Unable in an Official capacity. I didn't think I had to clarify that point to the people of this board, most understand chain of command, political claptrap, etc. For all you and I both know, those scientists did say something to someone, somewhere and Common Joe let the ball drop and didn't pass it on to his high placed contacts. I found it enlightening you so quickly blamed the scientists who can predict such events, rather than the insensible warning system guidelines that excluded the Indian Ocean area due to political and financial reasons.

OK, granted.

 

Why do I blame them? I don't blame them per se, I hold them responsible for their part.

 

Please look back...it is the address book comment that blew my mind. I am offended by it. After all, there are tens of thousands dead already.

 

The warning system is flawed, I don't deny that.

 

Yes, they may have said something. If so, they need to clarify that real quick. I remind you again, tens of thousands ar dead.

 

So I will now wait for clarification of their explanation. If the "address book" comment stands I would love to see that scientist's career carved up and served to undergrads for lunch.

 

I give scientists a great deal of credit, I also hold them to a higher standard. They need to be better than the politics of the warning system.

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OK, granted.

 

Why do I blame them? I don't blame them per se, I hold them responsible for their part.

 

Please look back...it is the address book comment that blew my mind. I am offended by it. After all, there are tens of thousands dead already.

 

The warning system is flawed, I don't deny that.

 

Yes, they may have said something. If so, they need to clarify that real quick. I remind you again, tens of thousands ar dead.

 

So I will now wait for clarification of their explanation. If the "address book" comment stands I would love to see that scientist's career carved up and served to undergrads for lunch.

 

I give scientists a great deal of credit, I also hold them to a higher standard. They need to be better than the politics of the warning system.

They need to be better than the politics of the warning system.

 

 

They need to be better than the politics of the Politicians.

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To suggest that there are political protocols which prevent one country warning another of impending disaster is a crock.

That undersea crust deformations cause tsunamis is schoolboy knowledge. A submarine event of such magnitude should have triggered immediate warnings to all coastal countries. It looks like somebody fouled up, poor sods.

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To suggest that there are political protocols which prevent one country warning another of impending disaster is a crock.

That undersea crust deformations cause tsunamis is schoolboy knowledge. A submarine event of such magnitude should have triggered immediate warnings to all coastal countries. It looks like somebody fouled up, poor sods.

They cannot predict when this type of earthquake will happen, exactly where it will happen and what magnitude it will be.

 

After it happens the wavelengths must be measured at 3 separate geological stations to pinpoint where the epicenter is. Then they must determine the plate structure and determine what type of movement took place (ie. strike-slip, push-pull etc).

 

Then take into consideration that there are apprx. 17,000 islands in that region. Many are not connected via the internet and communication is very difficult after this type of earthquake because most communication lines were severed.

 

The energy from the epicenter traveled at about 500mph underwater with no visible sign of the oncomming tsunami. This energy cannot be measured at a fast enough rate to enable anyone to issue a warning in time to take action.

 

So your talking about gathering all the required data and then making a decision on whether to issue a warning.

 

You CANNOT predict the size and magnitude of an earthquake or even when it will happen. You cannot measure how much pressure is building up on the fault or fissures so you cannot predict how large the eathquake will be.

 

A smaller quake on the Kawlifonia coast could result in a huge death toll.

 

Taking all of this into consideration, nobody could have warned or done anything faster than was already done. Scientist know about as much about tectonic plates as they do about the human brain, which is very little.

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You are quite right in citing the complexity and difficulty in this matter. However I cannot agree that nothing more could have been done.

 

Please remember, one scientist was quoted as saying that they didn't have any "contacts in their address book".

 

Basically that means if he had a number he would have called it. That means that he could have done more.

 

Predicting these things is extremely difficult if not impossible currently. They do the best they can and are continuing research all the time.

 

I goes without saying that any warnings would have met with limited success as far as saving lives, but to not even try for lack of a contact number is senseless in the information age.

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The Japanese and the US have a pretty good detection system set up , in the Pacific ...The Japaneses civil defence can react with shorter lead time's ,than that what occurred in the Indian, ocean as most of the earth quakes causing the Tsunami's tend to be off their continental shelf ....... Once the quake has happened .... and its position and magnitude determined ...the probable path of the Tsunami can be predicted from computer modelling....

 

Its had a hell of a lot of money and brains thrown at it ...Plus political and financial motivation ...

 

A net based alert system makes sense ...and cheap (ignoring the human cost , which politically seems even cheaper) hopefully ...globally....Its up to the politicians ....not the scientists

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