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Low Blow By Kerry


Guest Deuces Wild

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Guest Deuces Wild

CORAOPOLIS, Pa. (AP) — Lynne Cheney accused Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry of pulling a "cheap and tawdry political trick," apparently for invoking her daughter's sexuality in his debate with President Bush.

 

Asked Wednesday night whether homosexuality is a choice, Kerry noted that one of Vice President Dick Cheney's daughters is a lesbian, and said she would probably affirm that she was born that way.

 

Mrs. Cheney made clear she thought Kerry had crossed a line into family privacy when she introduced her husband to a supportive crowd of 800 after a debate-watching party in the Pittsburgh suburb of Coraopolis.

 

"Now, you know, I did have a chance to assess John Kerry once more and now the only thing I could conclude: This is not a good man," she said.

 

"Of course, I am speaking as a mom, and a pretty indignant mom. This is not a good man. What a cheap and tawdry political trick."

http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/politic...ylist=president

 

I agree.

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Guest Deuces Wild

It did not have to be brought into the discussion as it was personal in nature and offered nothing of substance to it. I guess the words of her mother on how she viewed it mean nothing to you?

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Mothers are not an objective source of information or opinion about their children. :mrgreen:

 

Kerry made an assertion that only Mary Cheney can verify (she is gay by birth not by choice), someone should ask her. I think that point was one of the most substantial in this particular debate. Kerry took a position on an issue and gave an example. It's similar to the way he used Chris Reeve as an example in the earlier debate.

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Guest Deuces Wild

Mothers are not an objective source of information or opinion about their children. :mrgreen:

 

Kerry made an assertion that only Mary Cheney can verify (she is gay by birth not by choice), someone should ask her. I think that point was one of the most substantial in this particular debate. Kerry took a position on an issue and gave an example. It's similar to the way he used Chris Reeve as an example in the earlier debate.

So if only she could verify as true why did Kerry present it as being true?
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It's common knowledge that Cheney's daughter is a lesbian, why should it upset the mother so much that Kerry made mention of it? Speaking of cheap shots, both sides are equally guilty of it, why should Kerry be singled out for one cheap shot? It's just politics as usual. If we want to post threads about every cheap shot a politician makes at election time, General Discussions would be overrun with them. -kd5-

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If Mary Cheney is so inclined she can speak for herself. Right now I think she's pretty mad at her dad's party.

 

Just to be clear what we're talking about:

SCHIEFFER: Both of you are opposed to gay marriage. But to understand how you have come to that conclusion, I want to ask you a more basic question. Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

 

BUSH: You know, Bob, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that we have a choice to make in America and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity. It's important that we do that. [More offtopic answer...]

 

KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it. And I've met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them.  I think we have to respect that.

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I didn't think he was disrespectful towards her at all, and I think he used her as a case in point because she is the vice president's daughter and cheney is for the gay marriage issue to be left as a decision to be made on a state level. He, unlike Bush has not "flip flopped" as some of you like to refer to changing your mind on things on this issue. He apparently felt this way in 2000 and has not changed his viewpoint on it. It isn't like Kerry "outed" her from the closet she is gay and proud of it. I don't really feel like Kerry was being mean about her I think he just used her as an example as Dave stated above.

 

Here is what Cheney said about it recently:

 

Vice President Cheney spelled out his differences with President Bush on the volatile issue of gay marriage Tuesday while making his most revealing public comments so far about the sexual orientation of his gay daughter.

 

Asked his position on the subject at a town hall meeting here, Cheney replied: "Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue that our family is very familiar with. . . . With respect to the question of relationships, my general view is that freedom means freedom for everyone. People . . . ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to."

Cheney went on to reiterate the position he first outlined in the 2000 campaign -- that same-sex marriage should be left to the states to decide. He noted, however, that Bush has endorsed a constitutional amendment preventing the states from recognizing such marriages.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...av=rss_politics

 

One of the few times I agree totally with Cheney! :P

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Guest Deuces Wild

Dave, you editorialized Bush's comment with your insertion of "More offtopic answer.." following the first section of his reply. Why you thought that was important to do is beyond me as he certainly addressed the question that was asked and stuck to that topic.

 

Here is the full unedited version of that particular discussion:

 

 

SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, let's get back to economic issues. But let's shift to some other questions here.

 

Both of you are opposed to gay marriage. But to understand how you have come to that conclusion, I want to ask you a more basic question. Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

 

BUSH: You know, Bob, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that we have a choice to make in America and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity. It's important that we do that.

 

And I also know in a free society people, consenting adults can live the way they want to live.

 

And that's to be honored.

 

But as we respect someone's rights, and as we profess tolerance, we shouldn't change -- or have to change -- our basic views on the sanctity of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I think it's very important that we protect marriage as an institution, between a man and a woman.

 

I proposed a constitutional amendment. The reason I did so was because I was worried that activist judges are actually defining the definition of marriage, and the surest way to protect marriage between a man and woman is to amend the Constitution.

 

It has also the benefit of allowing citizens to participate in the process. After all, when you amend the Constitution, state legislatures must participate in the ratification of the Constitution.

 

I'm deeply concerned that judges are making those decisions and not the citizenry of the United States. You know, Congress passed a law called DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act.

 

My opponent was against it. It basically protected states from the action of one state to another. It also defined marriage as between a man and woman.

 

But I'm concerned that that will get overturned. And if it gets overturned, then we'll end up with marriage being defined by courts, and I don't think that's in our nation's interests.

 

KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as.

 

I think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it.

 

And I've met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them.

 

I think we have to respect that.

 

The president and I share the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that. I believe marriage is between a man and a woman.

 

But I also believe that because we are the United States of America, we're a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights that we afford people, that you can't discriminate in the workplace. You can't discriminate in the rights that you afford people.

 

You can't disallow someone the right to visit their partner in a hospital. You have to allow people to transfer property, which is why I'm for partnership rights and so forth.

 

Now, with respect to DOMA and the marriage laws, the states have always been able to manage those laws. And they're proving today, every state, that they can manage them adequately.

 

NOTE:  Bold characters added by me :)

 

And I again repeat my belief that Kerry showed a lack of class and sensitivity by bringing the Cheney girl into the discussion.

Edited by Deuces Wild
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DW,

 

I found your choice of words "Low Blow" amusing. :P

 

But seriously, this is politics and there are plenty of dirty tactics on both sides, and certainly this is not even close to being the worst. More important, is whether this issue could potentially backfire on him with undecided voters. Most felt, including me, that Cheney handled the delicate issue very well in the prior debate. That said, what Cheney left unsaid, perhaps needed to be said.

 

Only time will tell whether the move backfires on him.

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I think Deuces is trying to say that it was uncalled for and there was no reason to bring it up and there wasn't. Kerry could have gotten his point across without having to mention personal information about Cheney's family. ;)

Edited by amd dude
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I think Deuces is trying to say that it was uncalled for and there was no reason to bring it up and there wasn't. Kerry could have gotten his point across without having to mention personal information about Cheney's family. ;)

Exactly.

 

I hate it when people talk about other people's families, and they don't even know them. That's like me calling someone a dirty old man, and he's wearing a Rolex, and a $5000 Italian suit.

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what is the difference in Kerry mentioning her than Edwards during the debates?

 

The vice president expressed no objection when Edwards brought up Mary Cheney during their debate. Edwards expressed "respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her. It's a wonderful thing."

 

Cheney thanked his opponent for the "kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much."

 

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...1431EDT0607.DTL

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Guest Deuces Wild

Actually Cheney just today expressed outrage over the statement made by Kerry.

 

Read what Edwards said, then read what Kerry said. Kerry's words were certainly not kind. Also note that Edwards was addressing the father, Kerry was not.

 

Sorry you don't see it. :rolleyes:

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I think it was much more significant that Bush said "But as we respect someone's rights, and as we profess tolerance, we shouldn't change -- or have to change -- our basic views on the sanctity of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I think it's very important that we protect marriage as an institution, between a man and a woman. "

 

profess" To make a pretense of; pretend: “top officials who were deeply involved with the arms sales but later professed ignorance of them” "

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Actually Cheney just today expressed outrage over the statement made by Kerry.

 

Read what Edwards said, then read what Kerry said. Kerry's words were certainly not kind. Also note that Edwards was addressing the father, Kerry was not.

 

Sorry you don't see it. :rolleyes:

see what? A bunch of conservatives whining because Kerry made an example out of one of their members?

 

Kerry has had every aspect of his life scrutinized and has had his integrity questioned about the vietnam war and no one complains about that.

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I think this is the topic. Bush claims to only pretend to be tolerant of Chaney's daughter's lifestyle but that isn't offensive? While citing an openly gay person as an example of someone who would affirm that they "didn't choose to be gay" is offensive?

 

How much more topical would you like this to be? It is even in your quote.

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Actually Cheney just today expressed outrage over the statement made by Kerry.

 

Read what Edwards said, then read what Kerry said. Kerry's words were certainly not kind. Also note that Edwards was addressing the father, Kerry was not.

 

Sorry you don't see it. :rolleyes:

His words weren't meant to offend anyone. What he said was not an attack on anyone, once more, it was nothing more but an example. Period.
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