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Your numbers are quite incorrect........

 

United States 16,112,566 <in combat 291,557 < killed 670,846 <wounded

 

United Kingdom 5,896,000 <in combat 357,116 <killed 369,267 <wounded

 

U.S.S.R. — <unknown 6,115,000 <killed 14,012,000 <wounded

 

U.S.S.R. deaths are not just combat deaths

United Kingdom deaths not just combat both Russia and U.K's numbers are civillians and solders combined.

Edited by tweekybob2000
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:)

 

Why is it? Murder is a Crime?

 

Yet if you go to Iraq on the Orders of your Country, you can kill anyone?

Women, Kids, anyone that gets in your way?

 

Iraqis diddn't ask you to come!

 

:mrgreen::mrgreen::rolleyes::lol:

Edited by Drovers Dog
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Here's my take:

 

The kidnappings, beheadings and bombings are not insurgency nor are they guerilla tactics.

 

It's a gangland turf-war which was simmering below the surface long before the Americans arrived but which in the past was subdued by Saddam's Republican Guard.

 

The atrocities splashed on American TV screens are not aimed at America. They're aimed at rival gangs in an effort to display local strength. CNN, Fox and the American military are being used as dupes.

 

I

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Check your facts we are not killing civilians the terrorist are.

:)

I would humbly beg to differ! How many Civilians have been killed by Coalition Forces? since this whole mess started?

 

Remember 100 Troops were killed to take Iraq, 900 more to try to hold it!

 

:mrgreen::mrgreen::rolleyes::lol:

Edited by Drovers Dog
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Why don't we just kill everybody and shut up???

 

Most of you act as if you were in the Iraqi war yourself, you make claims, you post statistics, and you disrespect other countries, all because you don't agree with someone.

 

Answer the phone, I think it's reality calling!

 

 

If you're in the war yourself, you would know what all sides have to go through with this war, and since you people are here posting, you obviously can't be at war since you'd be too busy fighting.

 

But then again, my opinion doesn't matter, because I am just a lowly American.

Edited by brandon
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Why don't we just kill everybody and shut up???

 

Most of you act as if you were in the Iraqi war yourself, you make claims, you post statistics, and you disrespect other countries, all because you don't agree with someone.

 

Answer the phone, I think it's reality calling!

 

 

If you're in the war yourself, you would know what all sides have to go through with this war, and since you people are here posting, you obviously can't be at war since you'd be too busy fighting.

 

But then again, my opinion doesn't matter, because I am just a lowly American.

:)

 

Actually, Brandon,

 

Your Post does make heaps of sense!

 

Given the way things work in America, most Veterans cannot Post on this because of the Law in America, and that is so sad!

 

Others, from other Countries, not bound by those Laws have Posted, just to advise you, not to degrade you!

 

What is happening is affecting the whole World, not just USA, so we have a Right, and an Obligation, also to contribute to the Debates regarding Iraq!

 

:mrgreen::mrgreen::rolleyes::lol:

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:)

 

Actually, Brandon,

 

Your Post does make heaps of sense!

 

Given the way things work in America, most Veterans cannot Post on this because of the Law in America, and that is so sad!

 

Others, from other Countries, not bound by those Laws have Posted, just to advise you, not to degrade you!

 

What is happening is affecting the whole World, not just USA, so we have a Right, and an Obligation, also to contribute to the Debates regarding Iraq!

 

:mrgreen::mrgreen::rolleyes::lol:

Ok, now I'm confused.

 

Guess I need some sleep.

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Against my better judgement, I am going to reply to this thread. I do not know how to do multiple quoting, so, I will just cover some of the parts of the thread I remember and comment on those.

 

It is true that WW2 and this Iraq war can not be compared, however, there is great relevances between the two. The reason why the U.S. waited so long was not to do "clean up". Churchill, himself, stated with out the American Spirit, England would be lost. We were trying to avoid going because it "wasn't our problem". Does that sound familiar? Even after losing thousands of lives and tons of cargo we still held back. It wasn't until after German u-boats started sinking ships in Galveston harbor that we went to war with Germany.

 

Those opposing the war love telling the rest that they need to get their facts straight before posting, to that, I suggest they do the same. WW2 Germany taught the Americans that no matter how far removed from a global problem they were, the consequences would catch up and the problems to deal with then would be escalated further than they should have gotten.

 

Now, on to the comment about no one asking us to be there. Again, I would suggest to them, who love telling it to the others, get your facts straight. For well over 20 years the U.S. has been accepting, with open arms, Iraqis fleeing their native home to hide from the "monster Saddam" (their exact words, not mine). They all petitioned our government to go in and remove him so they could go back to the country they so love. For those 20+ years the U.S. begged for support from their allies and the U.N. to grant the request to free the people from the nightmare they were living. This back and forth begging went on for far too long. While the original reasoning was messed up and reasons for that are too vast to go into. The operation now going on is one that should have been done long ago. I say it is about time the Iraqis are finally getting the freedom they have been begging to obtain.

 

Some of you will come back saying something like, "they don't want you there". I say remember, what you're hearing is just as likely to be the minority as you claim those that are wanting us there are the minority, that lame excuse goes both ways. We are all far removed from what is going on there and we let our emotions and limited information decide what is what.

 

Even my statements here are of my own based on information I have gotten from the news and from actual refugee Iraqis.

 

I will say I am appalled at the blatant "hard on", some posters here have, for blasting the U.S. It is starting to seem that they are only happy when they scour the net for every little thing that has gone wrong, instead of focusing on the big picture.

 

It is true we went in with far too little planning and the wrong main reason, however, I will say this has been something that has been long overdue.

 

This is my opinion, so take it any way you feel.

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I will say I am appalled at the blatant "hard on", some posters here have, for blasting the U.S. It is starting to seem that they are only happy when they scour the net for every little thing that has gone wrong, instead of focusing on the big picture.

 

The only 'blasting' I see is with regards American foreign policy and domestic policies that have a negative effect on the world at large. It deserves blasting on these issues and I hope it continues to be blasted until things change.

 

Now, on to the comment about no one asking us to be there. Again, I would suggest to them, who love telling it to the others, get your facts straight. For well over 20 years the U.S. has been accepting, with open arms, Iraqis fleeing their native home to hide from the "monster Saddam" (their exact words, not mine). They all petitioned our government to go in and remove him so they could go back to the country they so love.

The pleas of a few thousand immigrants are used to justify an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation? Probably resulting in the death of more civillians than there were immigrants to the USA. 20 years of being told NO by the international community should be enough of a hint for anyone. Unruly, spoilt teenagers usually have trouble taking NO for an answer, not great nations.

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The only 'blasting' I see is with regards American foreign policy and domestic policies that have a negative effect on the world at large. It deserves blasting on these issues and I hope it continues to be blasted until things change.

 

 

 

The pleas of a few thousand immigrants are used to justify an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation? Probably resulting in the death of more civillians than there were immigrants to the USA.  20 years of being told NO by the international community should be enough of a hint for anyone.  Unruly, spoilt teenagers usually have trouble taking NO for an answer, not great nations.

Domestic policies do not affect the world at large and that just further proves, that people such as yourself, go out of your way to find any little thing you can to belittle my country. Foreign policy, however, does affect the world. However, you are grossly misinformed if you think that the president has total authority on this front. Those decisions are done also by, and possibly to a larger extent, the congress. Which if you had any facts at all, you would know that the democrats are just as much to blame for the failures as the republicans.

 

I find it ironic that you are supporting a man who voted for the war that you so despise. For every policy you support him in, i can show you where he states his policy is just the opposite of the ones you support. How can you sit there and demand a foreign nation to make better foreign relations, when those countries keep changing their stances? How do you make peaceful agreements with foreign countries when it destroys your own country?

 

Some one, I think Moon, said that if things keep going there will be no trade with Canada. If that means the jobs come back home, then, I'm sorry to say I would be very happy. The free trade agreements have caused such a traumatic downfall more people are hurting now than ever before, save the Great Depression. True, there are more jobs now, than a couple of years ago, but they only pay part time and minimum wage. Minimum wage pay working full time can not even support one person let alone a family.

 

I will say this before any foreign policies get enacted, we first need to fix ourselves, even if that means voiding every free trade policy.

 

Now, on to the Iraqi situation.

 

As you like to point out and as I restated, get your facts before commenting. It is far more than a few thousand immigrants. There are a few thousand just in one small city in Michigan. Last I heard there were over one million Iraqi refugees in the U.S. alone, that's not including refugees in the U.K., Canada and other countries.

 

The reason the U.N. always said NO was pure and simple greed. They have been taking advantage of the Iraqi citizens by allowing Saddam to stay in power because he cut U.N. countries, that supported his tyranny, received special deals.

Edited by aeromaestro
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How little you seem to know. By domestic policies, I particularly mean your abuse of 'our' atmosphere and your flagrant disregard of it by your poor control over vehicular and industrial by-products. Irrefutable fact.

 

As for your 1 million Iraqis, I prefer to act on the consensus of the majority. That's the way us truly democratic countries usually decide things like elections and such. The invasion of Iraq was illegal and fuelled by your own countrys greed and need for fuel and the control of it and smaller countries like mine having weak and sychophantic leaders. Sure, there is an outside chance that Bush and his coalition did invade with only the best of intentions, but I'm afraid that the lies and deceptions given as justification make that a longshot I am unwilling to bet upon.

 

As far as acting out of your overwhelming sense of humanitarianism, if yours was such a caring nation whos only thought was for the oppressed, sick and starving of the world, your contributions would reflect that more than they currently do. Per capita, Americas contributions are not that good. That isn't to say that it isn't good, just not as great a sacrifice as many other nations per capita.

 

As for supporting Kerry; like many others who would vote for him, mine would be a vote against Bush more than it would be a vote for Kerry. The lesser of 2 evils if you will. I am not so neive as to expect any great changes no matter who is in post, as I believe that the real power controlling your great nation does not belong to the President, but the conglomerates and industrial captains in the background. I would also choose Kerry in the hope that he would be man enough to negotiate with and honour his commitments to organisations his country signed up to. Not to disregard them for the chance to make a few bucks.

 

edit: your trade policies are your own affair and as such I have no comment.

Edited by Sir T Fireball
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How little you seem to know. By domestic policies, I particularly mean your abuse of 'our' atmosphere and your flagrant disregard of it by your poor control over vehicular and industrial by-products. Irrefutable fact.

 

As for your 1 million Iraqis, I prefer to act on the consensus of the majority. That's the way us truly democratic countries usually decide things like elections and such.  The invasion of Iraq was illegal and fuelled by your own countrys greed and need for fuel and the control of it and smaller countries like mine having weak and sychophantic leaders. Sure, there is an outside chance that Bush and his coalition did invade with only the best of intentions, but I'm afraid that the lies and deceptions given as justification make that a longshot I am unwilling to bet upon.

 

As far as acting out of your overwhelming sense of humanitarianism, if yours was such a caring nation whos only thought was for the oppressed, sick and starving of the world, your contributions would reflect that more than they currently do. Per capita, Americas contributions are not that good. That isn't to say that it isn't good, just not as great a sacrifice as many other nations per capita.

 

As for supporting Kerry; like many others who would vote for him, mine would be a vote against Bush more than it would be a vote for Kerry. The lesser of 2 evils if you will. I am not so neive as to expect any great changes no matter who is in post, as I believe that the real power controlling your great nation does not belong to the President, but the conglomerates and industrial captains in the background.  I would also choose Kerry in the hope that he would be man enough to negotiate with and honour his commitments to organisations his country signed up to. Not to disregard them for the chance to make a few bucks.

 

edit: your trade policies are your own affair and as such I have no comment.

Coming from a country that refuses to deal with your own waste products, you really have no room pointing fingers. As for the atmosphere, for one, that would be a foreign policy issue not domestic, for two, our factories and cars follow the California EPA standard which is the most stringent of all of North America. True, we do, however, create more air pollutants, but, that is because your own country refuses to have too many factories that are needed in modern society.

 

 

Using the majority of the U.N. as an excuse for refusing to help displaced immigrants is outrageously inhumane. How can you smugly sit there and say that because of the crooked bureaucrats running the U.N. say that the Iraqi citizens are not worth freeing, when they were driven from their homeland?

 

As for the oil comment you all love throwing out there, we have no need what so ever for Iraqs oil as we get ours from Saudi Arabia. We, quite honestly, do not even need theirs but did it for foreign relations.

 

As for Kerry honoring anything, I would not count on it. The man has not been able to stay on one side of any topic to show that he has any honorable traits. What Kerry has proposed in his Iraq debate is dangerous for the world at large at best. He is talking of a full pull out in 6 monnths, that is impossible without severe backlash. You think what the terrosists have done so far was bad, it will be nothing compared to what they do if the U.S. does a rapid withdrawal from there. Like it or not, believe it or not I do not agree with how and when we went to Iraq, we are committed and must finish what we started.

Edited by aeromaestro
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Coming from a country that refuses to deal with your own waste products, you really have no room pointing fingers. As for the atmosphere, for one, that would be a foreign policy issue not domestic, for two, our factories and cars follow the California EPA standard which is the most stringent of all of North America. True, we do, however, create more air pollutants, but, that is because your own country refuses to have too many factories that are needed in modern society.

 

 

Using the majority of the U.N. as an excuse for refusing to help displaced immigrants is outrageously inhumane. How can you smugly sit there and say that because of the crooked bureaucrats running the U.N. say that the Iraqi citizens are not worth freeing, when they were driven from their homeland?

 

As for the oil comment you all love throwing out there, we have no need what so ever for Iraqs oil as we get ours from Saudi Arabia. We, quite honestly, do not even need theirs but did it for foreign relations.

 

As for Kerry honoring anything, I would not count on it. The man has not been able to stay on one side of any topic to show that he has any honorable traits. What Kerry has proposed in his Iraq debate is dangerous for the world at large at best. He is talking of a full pull out in 6 monnths, that is impossible without severe backlash. You think what the terrosists have done so far was bad, it will be nothing compared to what they do if the U.S. does a rapid withdrawal from there. Like it or not, believe it or not I do not agree with how and when we went to Iraq, we are committed and must finish what we started.

What's that sound??? Is it SirT getting OWNED???

 

Anyway, your sentence couldn't be any truer IMO Aero :)

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