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Countrydave55

The Bush Service Record

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I am really not trying to start an argument but I am reallly curious about his National Guard service history.

 

Each week brings forth a Little more information (not allegation) about Mr. Bush's service history. My republican friends don't think it matters and they tell me that they are sure he used influence to get into the guard and to get out early. The democrats I talk to say they don't care but they are upset that their man was tarnished for perhaps not being a John Wayne or Audi Murphy hero while Bush did little and is treated like a hero for it. So on a whole it seems that this is a non issue as far as politics go.

 

Now the question. The latest memo seems to support the allegation that GWB did not finish his guard duty. Honestly I would be surprised if anything else comes out about his guard record. But if he didn't serve his duty doesn't this make him AWOL? Isn't AWOL during the time of military action still a capital crime? Is it a felony or does it not count since it is a military trial? Can a felon serve as president (if he is tried and convicted of course)? Since he did not fulfill his commitment can he not be pressed into service? Can he be both active military and Commander in Chief? Does he not have to repay the military service for all of his training with interest and penalty because he defaulted on his contractual commitment?

 

I am really curious about this. Any lawyers out there?

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Which latest memo? The one CBS retracted as being falsely provided to them by a source who's repeatedly tried to pass off "verified lost government documents" as a means to wage his own one man war against Bush?

 

Maybe we should bring Clinton up on the same charges, as I recall, his military service record was a bit "dodgy", he's a former Commander-in-Chief. Call it a test trial before issuing that subpoena on Bush :mrgreen:

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Guest fragged one

i really couldn't care less.

 

i think that w. didn't use influence to get into the national guard, but rather his dad did without w.'s knowledge of it...even so, that was not rare for powerful people to do that. vietnam was an unpopular war even among the supporters of it...nobody wanted their kids going there, and if they could do anything to avoid it (the kid or the parent) then they would.

 

clinton went to oxford, w. went to the texas air national guard.

 

and as far as not fulfilling his committment, there isn't anything that shows that...he does have an honorable discharge. how do you get an honorable discharge without completing your duty?

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I was referring to the letter he wrote the National Guard saying he did not want to continue his military commitment. Written from Cambridge Mass and surrendered under court order yesterday. Resignation Letter

 

What does this have to do with Clinton?

 

Clinton who was neither rich nor powerful recieved a war deferment due to education. Was it morally right not in my opinion. Would I have sought such a deferment absolutely. Did others? Yes hundreds. Was it legal yes.

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Guest Deuces Wild

Why do Bush's or Kerry's military records over 30 years ago matter to you? Just curious as even Kerry learned to drop that issue.

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The White House said Bush sent the letter after having already been honorably discharged from the Texas Air National Guard.

So he's honorably discharged, meaning his service has ended, yet was assigned to a unit in Colorado after his service to the National Guard had ended. His committment was met, as far as I'm concerned. He might have received some poor advice on how to handle the situation in Colorado but sheesh, this was 30 years ago. Kerry makes it seem like Bush enrolled in the Guard and then went skipping off to funland, totally ignoring his committment. That didn't happen.

 

In reference to Clinton, if you want to make so much about Bush not fulfilling his committment to the military, then why not start with Clinton? He got his draft notice and bailed out post haste, enrolled in college, where he spent the next 4 years not inhaling :lol: Legal? Yup. Ethical? You decide. Making your military history a requirement for the presidency? If that's the case, then Clinton bailed out on his committment, legal or not, and should have never been elected.

 

In short - Bushed completed his committment, as did Kerry. The point is moot, IMO.

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Can he be both active military and Commander in Chief?

No, but the Commander in Chief can be in the Inactive Reserves, as was JFK.

 

The original GHWB was a decorated pilot. His VP, Quayle used his influence to get a Guard commission. None of them are perfect.

As was said before, it was 30 years ago, they were young men, the point is MOOT.

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Thank you for your response Hulk.

 

As for why I care. I care for the same reason I want Osama Bin Laden caught. I care for the same reason I don't exceed the speed limit and don't think others should either. Criminal wrong doing should be caught and punished by the laws of our society.

 

I did not legally fault Clinton for enrolling in school and I do not fault Bush for trying to get into the guard. I think it was morally and legally wrong for him to have gone to the front of the line but it is far more legally and morally wrong to evade the draft by enrolling in the guard and then failing that commitment as well.

 

If we are going to talk about Clinton smoking, the relevance of which eludes me since he is mot running for president, I think you need to explain Bush's problems with alcohol, his DUI, and his cocaine use in the past? Again I don't care except that it is illegal.

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Let's face it everyone has things from their past they are not proud of.. however when you decide to run for the top office in the US your past and present become under great scrutiny that is just how it is. This country has been ran by an ex alcoholic and cocaine user for four years who avoided Vietnam. Apparently the nation didn't care because he got elected and sadly it looks as tho he may be elected again because people generally do not seem to care one way or another or they wouldn't keep voting for him. I do find it irritating when he makes quotes like this one:

 

"I've been to war [sic]. I've raised twins. If I had a choice, I'd rather go to war."

 

what war was it he was referring to? Anyone know?

 

I think the main thing with me is I feel like he has been avoiding the issue more than facing it. Therefore when somebody avoids something I know they have something to hide and I feel lied to. He isn't the good old country boy he portrays he went to the finest schools and had a terrific education which apparently he's forgotten when it comes to public speaking ;)

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How did Bush fail his committment if he was honorably discharged? :blink:

 

You're the one who wants to try 30 years past behaviour against a presidential candidate (and sitting President), not me. For what purpose? To discredit his current campaign?

 

All I'm saying is if you want to take someone to trial over something that occured 30 years ago because they are in or trying to get into a government office, don't just target a Republican candidate. The Democrats are and have been just as "morally and legally wrong" in the past.

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Criminal wrong doing should be caught and punished by the laws of our society.

 

Flipper Kerry By his own admission commited serious war crimes. He mamed , tortured and mutilated innocent women and children. He was never brought up on charges because he is a politician. He was never brought up on charges of being party to a crime even though he personallly watched these atrocities take place.

 

:filtered: injured himself after 4 months in Nam and begged for a discharge so he could return home and run for senate.

 

:filtered: was never charged for the treason that he committed when he held 2 separate negotiation sessions with the Viet Cong (enemy) in Paris while serving his 4 months in Nam.

 

GWB served his full time in the Guard and was honorably dischared as he had fullfilled his duties.

 

GWB has more flying hours completed than Flipper spent in the military.

 

Tonight is the debate. Bring it all on. GWB will do to Flipper tonight, what the government should have done to him 30 years ago.

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:rofl2:

 

 

:rofl3:

 

:filtered: gets 2 Podiums tonight.

 

One named Flipper and the other named Flopper. Then he take any side he wants or even both. :lol:

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Why do Bush's or Kerry's military records over 30 years ago matter to you?  Just curious as even Kerry learned to drop that issue.

The reason that the people are making a big deal about kerry is that the purple hearts he got were questionable, and more so his actions after he returned from vietnam. that is why there is such a big debate on kerrys service.

 

G.W. is taking heat because the dems want to bring him to the table with questionable stuff to level the field.

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This is getting to be a not funny joke. Does it really matter who did what 30 years ago? They were both spoiled little rich kids who chose different ways of fulfilling their service commitment!! But I don't care. :mrsgreen:

 

What I do care about is millions of jobs lost to outsourcing made easier by the policies of this administration. I care about the skyrocketing costs of healthcare, and prescription drugs. I care about my children and grandchildren getting saddled with trillions of dollars in debt. I care about the relaxed pollution standards, and the opening of our national forests to greedy lumber companies.

 

I care about the climbing price of oil, and that is in part due to this (ended hostilities) in Iraq. I care about the young men and women dying in a war that wasn't needed at this time. I care about the next terror strike against us and the rest of the free world!!

 

Those are issues I will base my vote on. Those are the things that we should be looking at. And there is no way I can justify a vote for Bush, but I find it just as hard to support Kerry!!

 

But look at the issues instead of 30 year old records that don't prove or disprove a damn thing!!

 

Rant over. :lol:

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But look at the issues instead of 30 year old records that don't prove or disprove a damn thing!!

Couldn't have said it any better than that.

 

OSalcido Posted on September 30th, 2004, 03:43 PM

Why do they always bring out Clinton whenever they are cornered?

I don't believe I've declared one way or the other whether I'm Republican or Democrat, nor which way I intend to vote. And I don't consider myself to be "cornered" :P But you can't hang a noose around one party's candidates without also placing that noose around the other party's candidates. Care to debate what presidential candidates of both parties are guilty of "morally and illegal" activities prior to their public service, by all means, open another thread :D We can go all the way back to George Washington

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Which latest memo? The one CBS retracted as being falsely provided to them by a source who's repeatedly tried to pass off "verified lost government documents" as a means to wage his own one man war against Bush?

 

Maybe we should bring Clinton up on the same charges, as I recall, his military service record was a bit "dodgy", he's a former Commander-in-Chief. Call it a test trial before issuing that subpoena on Bush  :mrgreen:

Yea...Thats the one... :rolleyes:

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