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Countrydave55

So Now I See

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The Republicans in the house voted overwhelmingly to prevent the Courts from reviewing the legality/constitutionality of laws or actions within the United States.

Courts are obsolete

 

Well as Bush said. Plant a seed of democracy and democracy will spring forth and flourish. I guess he was right. look at Russia and now the United States. This is such a relief.

 

I guess the legislature can now proclaim Bush Cesar for Life. Hail Cesar Hail

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they actually cant pass that legislation, it seems as though we have a good old fashioned battle of the branches. Havent had one of those since the civil rights era.

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The article seems to disagree. It indicates the legislation has passed. I agree that it seems to be unconstitutional but of course the legislature has already decided what the Courts can rule on. A neat catch 22 if you ask me. Certainly seems like a good argument to vote them out of office.

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Certainly seems like a good argument to vote them out of office.

that will be the next thing they do away with. :mrsgreen:

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its passed the house, so its 1/3 of the way there but in reality congress cant pass a bill limiting the powers of the courts. The courts get to review any law brought before them regardless if it is passed and signed they can over rule it on various grounds. The courts would never allow a law to pass that limited their power.

 

checks and balances are fun arent they :)

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The story at hand was about the pledge and if it should say "one nation under GOD". The supreme court shouldnt be able to rule on that until all referance to God is removed from the constitution, and the bill of rights. Where there is NO referance to a seperation of church and state. It only states that the Govt cannot make a law that dictates what religion you can be affilieated with. Read the document over a few times.

 

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

The actual debate on the pledge is growing old. It is wasting the courts time and the taxpayers money. I doubt that the law passes but it would be a real victory for all if it does.

 

It is clear that it is not unconstitutional, read amendment one. Congress is not attempting to force religion on anyone. If you dont believe in god you may feel free to refrain from the phrase. By the way all laws, amendments and parts of the bill of rights were based on religion.

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the courts can rule on anything brought before them regardless of what it is. They must rule in accordance with the law and or their interpratation of the constitution its self.

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Rep. Todd Akin, R-Mo., the author of the amendment on legislation before the House Thursday, said the high court is likely to rule differently if it considers the substance of the case and "if we allow activist judges to start creating law and say that it is wrong to somehow allow schoolchildren to say 'under God' in the pledge."

Congress IS the most powerful institution in the country when it comes to law. The Supreme Court only interprets the Laws that congress creates and when you have a few dissidents that hate what America stands for and tries to destroy what most Americans believe in, then its time for Congress to step in and CLARIFY the law.

 

This will pass the senate and be signed by GWB.

 

Good luck John Kerry trying to win this battle and take 'Under God' out of the pledge of allegience. The hole you are digging will only become deeper and you will never get out.

 

the courts can rule on anything brought before them regardless of what it is. They must rule in accordance with the law and or their interpratation of the constitution its self.

 

And Congess writes the Laws and also have the power to change the Constitution.

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And Congess writes the Laws and also have the power to change the Constitution.

I may be way off base here, but I thought that to change the Constitution required a majority of states to approve, along with the Congress. I didn't think the Congress had the ability to change it by itself.

Write laws certainly, but within the Constitution.

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This is crass politics. They know this law would be unconstitutional--every person who's studied civics in school would know that--but they want a floor vote so they can use it in the election. Congress has no chance of getting the votes for a Constitutional amendment for something like this. Total misuse of the legislative process. I am really hoping people vote them out for this kind of abuse.

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Yes and the majority of states will usually go along with congress if it gets to the point of changing the constitution. , but the Supreme court cannot rewrite any laws.

 

We have not needed to make many changes until the modern times because we now have wacko judges making decisions to benefit a handful of people and slapping the face of the vast majority of the population.

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the congress is no more powerful than any other branches when it comes to law. They can pass something or not, the president can sign it or veto it, the courts can agree with it or over rule it. They are for all intents and purposes on equal footing. No branch can do something completely unconstitutional without the other over ruling. The only exception is an executive order but that CAN be over turned as well though its much more difficult to do so.

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Guest fragged one

its passed the house, so its 1/3 of the way there but in reality congress cant pass a bill limiting the powers of the courts. The courts get to review any law brought before them regardless if it is passed and signed they can over rule it on various grounds. The courts would never allow a law to pass that limited their power.

 

checks and balances are fun arent they :)

you know the idea of judicial review didn't come about until YEARS after the constitution was written.

 

i'm not so certain that judicial review is legal in the way the framers had intended.

 

WILLIAM MARBURY v. JAMES MADISON, SECRETARY OF STATE OF THE UNITED STATES

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the courts were not powerful enough to enforce their rulings, that is the only conclusion I have came to through extensive readings on court history. The court has only ruled when their rulings can be enforced and has on occasion went toe to toe with the other branches and has won most of its battles.

 

So if a law be in opposition to the constitution; if both the law and the constitution apply to a particular case, so that the court must either decide that case conformably to the law, disregarding the constitution; or conformably to the constitution, disregarding the law; the court must determine which of  these conflicting rules governs the case. This is of the very essence of judicial duty.

 

this is interesting but fails to take into account that law in violation of the consitution is not a law. The lower courts must rule upon the law itself in a criminal case BUT upon appeal to the supreme court this law would be overturned and therefor the original case would then be void.

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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" To make a claim that there is a God as opposed several Gods or no God is an establishment of a monotheistic religion.

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Guest fragged one

thats a matter of debate, I dont really have a feeling either way but it is debatable

how is that debatable? seems pretty straightforward to me.

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It's just election year politics:

 

The legislation has little chance of advancing in the Senate this year, but it laid down another marker for politicians seeking to differentiate themselves from their election opponents on the volatile social issues of the day. Other "wedge" issues that have or could come up before the election include gay marriage and flag-burning.

 

:lol::lol:

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I think it is pretty straightforward too but some one does not see it as debatable. The wrote "It is clear that it is not unconstitutional, read amendment one. Congress is not attempting to force religion on anyone."

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the congress is no more powerful than any other branches when it comes to law. They can pass something or not, the president can sign it or veto it, the courts can agree with it or over rule it. They are for all intents and purposes on equal footing. No branch can do something completely unconstitutional without the other over ruling. The only exception is an executive order but that CAN be over turned as well though its much more difficult to do so.

Congress is in fact the most powerfull branch of the United States government.

 

A president can veto, but a 2/3 vote from congress over rides a presidential veto.

 

Congress creates the very laws the courts rule on, presidents can propose laws, but congress is the body that decides whether or not it will be law.

 

Congress can remove a president. ;) No other body in our structure can do such a thing.

 

Congress can declare war, no other US body can do that.

 

Congress is "The Untited States Government"

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and the courts can over rule the congressional over ride.

 

Creating laws is one thing but having them remain on the books is another, hence the courts again

 

Removal of the president must be done on legal grounds, these grounds are law and are enforced through the court system.

 

this is my point that our government system is set up so one side cannot gain to much power. The power fluctuates over time, sometimes the executive office is the most powerful, sometimes congress and sometimes the courts. It depends on the situation of the country and the world

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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

 

This also means that Congress will make no law aginst religion or to disrespect the religious beliefs of anyone. (Unless your a terrorist and your religious beliefs include the murder of innocent people).

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In reviewing the constitution I do not see that the Supreme Court has any authority in impeachment and trial of a President.

never said that it did, I said that the laws of impeachment are laws and therefor legalized by the consitution which is held up by the courts

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