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Countrydave55

Are We Arresting The Wrong People?

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Terrorists Arrested

 

I am not a big fan of the way this administration has prosecuted the war on terror. He attacked a country that was innocent of the crimes he claims to have attacked them for (WMD, training terrorists, links with 9-11). He rounded up people in foreign countries and setting up conditions that allow for torture then not aggressively preventing the torture. Thousands held in Abu Ghareb supposedly because they were terrorists but when the torture scandal broke 75% were released. Does a torture scandal reduce a terrorists'- likelihood of terrorizing or were they not terrorists?

 

Then we have the patriot act. Basically anything you do or say at anytime can be reviewed, taken out of context, and used against you without judicial oversight.

 

In the mean time more than 5000 people have been picked up, accused of terrorism, locked away for up to 3 years without due process and none found guilty so far. How can this happen in America. Didn't we do this once with communism in the 50's ? Where a suspicion of communist leaning was enough to cost you your livelihood and sometimes your family? How is this different?

 

How do any of these things make America or Americans safer? I thought the essence of America was equal protection and fairness. Where in any of these actions can fairness be found?

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Guest fragged one

the worst part, cdave, is that a large number of americans support this kind of blatant anti-american, anti-freedom, and anti-constitutional policy.

 

the EVEN worse part, is that i am not convinced that any other president really would have done it that much differently, or have the desire or cajoles to drastically change it.

 

it's been serious time to buck the establishment (republicans/democrats) for many years, and i don't feel the worst has been seen as of yet.

 

but...even those unhappy with the establishment vote for the establishment...so what's even the point in fighting?

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It's not just the USA that coming unglued. The Brits have just released a guy they've been holding for three years without charge. I didn't even know he was banged up. Frightening.

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Lets face it,,the patriot act was some hasty not well thought out legislation thrown out to show the american people that congress was getting tough. and it was equally supported by both major parties.

 

Well it did get tough but with the wrong folks,,and as spread out and opportunistic as these terror cells are,,it don't bother them to much,,they will strike at will anyway.

 

Most of those sweeping laws need to be deep sixed and now.

 

 

 

PATRIOT gives sweeping anti-privacy powers to domestic law enforcement and international intelligence agencies and eliminates checks and balances that previously gave courts the opportunity to ensure that those powers were not abused. PATRIOT and follow-up legislation now in development threaten the basic rights of millions of Americans.

 

 

 

 

http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism/PATRIOT/

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Terrorists Arrested

 

I am not a big fan of the way this administration has prosecuted the war on terror. He attacked a country that was innocent of the crimes he claims to have attacked them for (WMD, training terrorists, links with 9-11). He rounded up people in foreign countries and setting up conditions that allow for torture then not aggressively preventing the torture. Thousands held in Abu Ghareb supposedly because they were terrorists but when the torture scandal broke 75% were released. Does a torture scandal reduce a terrorists'- likelihood of terrorizing or were they not terrorists?

 

Then we have the patriot act. Basically anything you do or say at anytime can be reviewed, taken out of context, and used against you without judicial oversight.

 

In the mean time more than 5000 people have been picked up, accused of terrorism, locked away for up to 3 years without due process and none found guilty so far. How can this happen in America. Didn't we do this once with communism in the 50's ? Where a suspicion of communist leaning was enough to cost you your livelihood and sometimes your family? How is this different?

 

How do any of these things make America or Americans safer? I thought the essence of America was equal protection and fairness. Where in any of these actions can fairness be found?

:)

 

In the Name of Liberty, your Comment should be Pinned!!!!

 

Mate, that said it all!!

 

NOT ONE THING TO ADD!

 

:mrgreen::mrgreen::rolleyes::lol:

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The Bush Administration's record on civil rights is abysmal. As fragged mentioned, the scary part is that the average American doesn't even seem to know or care. Indeed, to many Americans, “civil rights” is a dirty word.

 

Conservatives have been waging war against civil rights for decades. This opposition became acute during the 60s when Republicans used opposition to civil rights as a rallying point to bring disaffected Southern Democratic racists into the Republican fold. Throughout the 60s, one of the primary conservative rallying cries was “impeach Earl Warren”. The opposition has continued ever since. In 1992, George H W Bush ridiculed Bill Clinton for being “a card-carrying member of the American Civil Liberties Union”. The current Bush, in hiring and supporting John Ashcroft, has shown that securing his political base is more important than securing citizens' rights.

 

This decades-long attack on civil rights has helped the current administration strip away our rights without generating much opposition among the populace. There is very little difference between what Bush and Ashcroft are doing in the US and what Putin is doing in Russia. Each is using the terror crisis to restrict the rights of citizens.

 

Bush has succeeded not just in making Americans less secure from terrorism, but also less secure from the abuses of government.

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I look forward to seeing him with his cardboard suitcase on the White House steps.

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Guest fragged one

well, i completely agree with you, rhizome, but that is a massive over-simplification...i won't tackle that, but i will point out that george h. w. bush has a good reason to think it bad for clinton to be a member of the aclu.

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Posted Image

Send it back to the French , as what it stands for is no longer relevant ...?

 

You could replace it with this ....?

Posted Image

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Send it back to the French , as what it stands for is no longer relevant ...?

Nah, it would take a lot more than Bushy to tarnish that lady. I wish we had something more symbolic than a dozing koala. :lol:

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Okay, Tankus, though we may not have always lived up to her ideals, we ain't giving her back. :lol:

 

 

BTW: What is the proposed replacement?

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IMHO , in the after shock of 9-11 , the F.B.I and C.S.I.S took advantage of a very frightened society. Duped the U.S. and Canadian governments into a very controversial bill / legislation that never would have passed in either country , at any other time.

 

This lawsuit may change a few things.....

 

http://911review.org/Wiki/Arar,Maher.shtml

 

Welcome to 1984 , Big Brother is here. :mrsgreen:

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Conservatives have been waging war against civil rights for decades.......LIE!

 

Its kind of funny that "consevatives" have been labled as against civil rights, racests and god only knows what else. The republican party started because the whigs and dems refused to get rid of slavery, so the rebublican party was created to abolish it. Civil rights are protected by the republicans just as well as dems. This bill was a knee jerk reaction ill agree. But did you ever look at the good that some of the laws brought about? The wire tap law that is in question has been in place against suspected drug dealers since the clinton admin. but the law coundnt touch terrorists. The ACLU (anti-american Criminal Liberty Union) is more interested in removing the civil liberties from the majority, and only looking out for the minority of the pop. (minority is not nonwhite in this context it is the few)

The needs of the many out weigh the needs or wants of the few or the one. That is not in agreement with the ACLU. The conservative people want you to do for your self not have everything handed to you on a silver platter, and they want control of thier lives and money, not the government. Bush has more nonwhites in high ranking positions than even clinton who was called the first "black" president. New home ownership by blacks is higher now than ever before in the history of America.

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I am not sure that conservatives "The conservative people want you to do for your self not have everything handed to you on a silver platter, and they want control of their lives and money, not the government." If that were true why is Bush arguing that we needed to remove Saddam and give the Iraqis (on a silver platter) a democracy. If they want to give us control over our money why have they spent us into debt that my children's children will be trying to pay. If they don't want the govt. telling people how to live why are they so eager to outlaw drugs, tell gays they can't marry, tell people what must be said in the pledge of allegiance?

 

Why do conservatives consistently misrepresent their actions?

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your basing coservative ideology on the actions of one administration?

 

The government spend your money on questionable things no matter who is in office. The difference is an actual fiscal conservative would be spending a whole lot less money.

 

The "control of their lives" is exactly what we are hoping to give Iraqis....

 

The rest of your post tends to relate more to the religous right than the average conservative. But alas drugs are outlawed by BOTH PARTIES. Nobody is telling anyone what to say in the pledge, the pledge is the pledge, you can say it or not. Nobody has said that anything "must be said".

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Then we have the patriot act. Basically anything you do or say at anytime can be reviewed, taken out of context, and used against you without judicial oversight.

 

Not anything you say. Only if you voice your terrorist opinion or beliefs about killing innocent americans and westerners. Your free speech rights stop here and you are not welcome here.

 

 

BTW - Did John Kerry vote for the Patriot act or did he vote against it????

 

OR BOTH???? :lol:

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he voted for it then against it then for it again and then he just didnt show for the vote as usual

 

:rofl2:

 

We need this guy in office just like we need higher taxes on the FREE cars from Oprah.

 

:rofl3:

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Conservatives have been waging war against civil rights for decades.......LIE!

 

Its kind of funny that "consevatives" have been labled as against civil rights, racests and god only knows what else.

How many conservatives voted for the Civil Rights Act?

 

How many conservatives voted for the Voting Rights Act?

 

How many conservatives were opposed to the poll tax?

 

What was the Republican's Southern Strategy?

 

How often have Republicans used race-baiting as a major tool in their campaigns?

 

How many conservatives fully support John Ashcroft?

 

 

Conservatives have been waging war against civil rights for decades. If the conservatives have a reputation for racism, it is because they earned it.

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Guest fragged one

How many conservatives voted for the Civil Rights Act?

 

How many conservatives voted for the Voting Rights Act?

 

How many conservatives were opposed to the poll tax?

 

What was the Republican's Southern Strategy?

 

How often have Republicans used race-baiting as a major tool in their campaigns?

 

How many conservatives fully support John Ashcroft?

 

 

Conservatives have been waging war against civil rights for decades. If the conservatives have a reputation for racism, it is because they earned it.

i would love to see the answers, do you have the answer key?

 

i do know that the civil rights act passed the senate 73-27.

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The Conservatives are fully responsible for NOT teaching the people in Florida how to vote and punch out a chad correctly and costing Algore the election.

 

So yes, the conservatives have effectively waged a war against civil rights.

 

And it worked. :lol:

 

And it will work again because these same people will make the same mistake again even after 4 years of getting trained on how to vote.

 

:rofl3:

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[Conservatives have been waging war against civil rights for decades. If the conservatives have a reputation for racism, it is because they earned it. /QUOTE]

 

Was it a Republican or Democrate President that freed

the people from slavery.?

 

Republican

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