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Countrydave55

Pope Determines Homosexuality I Caused By Feminism

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G'day CD. Where ya bin ?

Yep, the pope would know all about homosexuality and women. :lol:

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Moon- I have been a bit busy of late but the rainy season has started so I expect to be around more.

 

I think I am surprised that the Catholic Church, Conservative Islam, and Evangelical Christianity have found common cause in the belief that women should be treated as chattel. While I acknowledge that there are certain advantages I simply cannot get beyond what I perceive to be a fundamental unfairness to this belief even though it is supported by most of the modern monotheistic religions from the Middle East.

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The surprise for me would be if organized religion did something liberating for humankind. But, the "church" preaches that women are chattel, the earth is flat, and stem-cell research is an abomination of God.

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I am a Christian but in no way part of "the church". Way too much hyporcrisy and focus on money in my opinion. As far as feminism goes, it was good idea that turned way too extreme. I thought feminism was about equality, but I see feminists out there preaching that women are BETTER than men. That makes them just as bad as male chauvinists in my mind. That's the problem with most causes; the extremists always make the whole group look bad.

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http://home.swipnet.se/islam/articles/women.htm

 

n the 19th century religious leaders of France, after long discussions, decided: "woman is a human being, but made to serve man." It was not until recent years that women in European lands had any rights to own property. In England it was not till about AD 1850 that women were counted in the national population census. It was in 1882 that a British law, unprecedented in the country's history, for the first time granted women the right to decide how their own earnings should be spent, instead of handing them over direct to their husbands immediately. Until then, even the clothes on their back had been their husband's property. Henry VIII had in his day even forbidden women to study the Bible when the first English translations began to appear.

 

Fourteen centuries ago Islam had decreed women's total financial independence, their right to own and dispose of property without the surveillance or control of any man, to conduct business, trade and all the transactions concerning their profit and loss, including the execution of deeds of gift, without having to check with anyone. As it is written in the Sura IV Nisa'a-"The Women" verse 33: "In no wise covet gifts bestowed by God seemingly more freely on some than on others. Whatsoever a man earns is his own. Whatsoever a woman earns is her own. Pray to God for the bounty of His Providence for He knows all things."

 

Besides property rights Islam bestowed dignity, liberty and freedom on women. This is not least true in the matter of marriage. Marriage is the most important and sensitive step in a woman's life. Islam did everything to secure her in it, and to enable her to consider the financial as well as all the other matters concerning the situation before she accepted him in wedlock.

Please.... don't confuse the 2 religions..... and don't use any of the treatment you see in afghanistan or wherever where islamic women are being treated bad as a representation of "conservative islam" because as I just stated above in that quote, conservative islam is bound to give women rights....

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I had no idea Islam had allowed that so long ago. Christians should have learned from them lol. Instead they choose to misinterpret the Bible, or in some cases interpret it as they please :P

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Islam is probably the only out of all 3 major religions that gave women's rights. Its just so many freakish morons who give Islam a bad rap on women's treatment. God says woman is not greater than man and man is not greater than women. Each suppliment each other.

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Islam is probably the only out of all 3 major religions that gave women's rights. Its just so many freakish morons who give Islam a bad rap on women's treatment. God says woman is not greater than man and man is not greater than women. Each suppliment each other.

Well, it's good to hear 'Old Islam' speak up and counteract the horror stories of Fundamentalist treatment of women. The Fundamentalist's greatest error was to antagonise 50% of the world's population in one go. How did these throwbacks become such a menace to civilisation ?

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Because they want things their way.... they are no different than George Bush , cept while GWB hides behind his party and values, the fundamentalists hide behind their religion. Yeah great, they just had to choose islam

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Women as other than a baby making machine and slave is a new concept to the western nations. It was only in the 1920s that women started getting any rights at all. Prior to that it was ok to kill a wife and the man owned the children. So we might be forgiven if some women have taken an extremism view of freeedom. Women in the work place still don't earn as much as men for the same job, the gap is closing but hasn't closed as yet.

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I did not mean to suggest that Islam was not a progressive dare I say "liberal" religion but I don't think that the majority of Muslims today would consider women equal to men except by strained and convoluted logic. I know some Muslim women that are professionals and work in high paying jobs. I do not know what sect of Islam they follow but they have made it clear that their spouse is their "master". Again this is only 2 people but I don't know of any major Islamic nation that describes women as equal and affords them complete equality.

 

Whatever promise Islam held would not seem to have been fulfilled all though I would say that is mostly true Christian religions as well.

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The problem is they aren't following Islam correctly. I was in Syria in 2002, I've observed many families and I don't see how wives are not treated equally. Hell they get better! LOL My dad will always go on about my aunt and how shes a nag to my uncle by marriage bugging for things and shes always getting her way. It may "seem" like wives are inferior to the husband, but it is not so. Men are separated from women in conversations and wives cover with veil. They choose to do so. There are reasons why men and women are separated and it has nothign to do with women being lower than men in anyway. Trust me, I've been there in person, I know. That could be just Syria though, but something tells me its just your lifestyle makes you perceive things differently than someone who lives in that type of environment.

 

People will look at the women and think "wow they are oppressed, I'd never want to be like that" but in turn the women there will look at here and say "wow they are really loose, I'd never want to be like that"

 

Now seeing as you perceived Islam that way, doesn't make it so. You cannot group Islam with bad womens rights. If a "muslim" family has the wife submitting to the husband 100% of the time, its not an islamic type family.

 

Besides, you said yourself that the muslim women you know work high pay, high position jobs. You cannot take that inkling they give you "my husband is my master" sorta feeling and say that is taken literally. Obviously they are high paying and working. That says something right? How many times have we seen the stereotype here in our own country with whatever religious value they follow "The husband brings home the bacon while the wife cooks and cleans"

 

Not always true with Islam. And if so, its by choice, not forced.

 

I know the point your getting acrossed and I probably explained more than I needed to, but this post was not technically to retort what you said CD, but overall just something people here need to know. I'm just trying to disspell any myths. I dunno how many women are like "i'd never convert to islam because of such and such that goes on in families, I want to live my own life"

 

I think... I've read this somewhere that 80% of converts to Islam in the US are women.... so its a sign that people out there are learning theres nothign wrong with being a woman and being muslim.

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It was only in the 1920s that women started getting any rights at all.

Was this action in any way contributory to either the great depression or prohibition? :P

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The God of the Christian faith also says that men and women are equals, but many fail to recongize that.

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The God of the Christian faith also says that men and women are equals, but many fail to recongize that.

Well the thing is, and I'm not trying to incite some sort of religious spar, is that from what I've read (many exerpts from the Bible, both new and old testament) is that woman is definitely NOT equal to man.

 

Again the other problem is, the exerpts were written by , well, people and not "god".

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Well the thing is, and I'm not trying to incite some sort of religious spar, is that from what I've read (many exerpts from the Bible, both new and old testament) is that woman is definitely NOT equal to man. 

 

Again the other problem is, the exerpts were written by , well, people and not "god".

as far as i know women are just not supposed to be priests, but nuns rather.

 

and yes, they were written by people so there may (maybe likley) be some bias in there.

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they were written by people with the help of God.

 

and women aren't supposed to be nuns.

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no, but i meant for a roll in the church as a church official, they're nuns.

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when I say people.... I'm talking in the bible itself..... corinthians, deuteronomy, timothy, etc

 

And... trust me, I have several exerpts that say more than just they can't be priests.

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Women did have equal rights and did have a voice in congress in 1795-96 Western Civilization. (see women of the time of the french revolution). The women would fight with each other and even formed violent street groups that would would beat the S*&%^^T out of the other women to a murderous extent. The governing body that granted this power became so shocked at this behavior and inability for women to agree and get along on anything that they removed them from government and reliquished them to the home to remain as housewives and stick with those duties.

 

This was 1 of the reasons why it took so long for woman to achieve equal staus.

 

If Women could behave themselves they would never be arguing about equal status. :mrgreen:

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well, in most cases women shouldnt be priests/pastors/ etc

 

but sometimes God will raise up a women to do the job

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gbpackersfan, what are the exerpts? :)

(I have a surfers bible and I want to see how its worded; this thing has actual illustrations of Moses surfing and it uses words like cool and yeah :woot::erm: )

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