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Countrydave55

Ashcroft And The Patriot Act

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Mr. Ashcroft just made a speech here saying that the Patriot Act must be strengthened and broaden to combat terrorism. He also proposed that terrorists or people plotting terrorist acts should receive the death penalty under patriot act.

 

I know that this is an improvement over his department's public position that torture is OK but I am troubled by this. Certainly terrorists that have taken lives should be death penalty eligible but it seems to me that "plotting terrorists acts" is pretty broad and a long way from causing any harm. I would be concerned that this is a disproportionate crime relative to the criminal act.

 

Any thoughts?

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Reminds me of that movie minority report.

 

Even though they may plan it doesn't mean at the last second they won't rethink it and change their mind to carry through with their plan. At the same time they planned to do something wrong and kill innocent Americans. I think they should still be persecuted just as much as someone who carried out a terrorist attack. We still need to send a message that we do not tolerate any form of threat or planned attack.

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Any thoughts?

Yep,, Mr Ashcroft sucks.

 

 

Most of the patriot act does likewise. :) v

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The patriot act sucks. Ashcroft sucks too. I see the patriot act as the governments way of ethnic cleasing. Who will they target once they have their version of the patriot act in full effect? Doesn't take too much thinking to figure that out.

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Hundreds of alleged terrorists at Gitmo. No access to court. No lawyers. If Ashcroft had been able to use the death penalty, how many of these people would still be alive? Who would know?

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Lets wait until they kill YOUR family via a suicide attack or other carefully planned action that we knew about long in advance. Hell GWB knew about 9/11 well in advance and still allowed it to happen.

 

We must be sure to have several of the best lawyers available at their disposal to protect them at the expense of the US taxpayers.

 

Then we should put them on trial in the Northern district of California court and guarantee their release even if they are guilty....and then allow them to finish their plan and carry it out fully.

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Lets wait until they kill YOUR family via a suicide attack or other carefully planned action that we knew about long in advance. Hell GWB knew about 9/11 well in advance and still allowed it to happen.

 

We must be sure to have several of the best lawyers available at their disposal to protect them at the expense of the US taxpayers.

 

Then we should put them on trial in the Northern district of California court and guarantee their release even if they are guilty....and then allow them to finish their plan and carry it out fully.

Well if ya think of anymore garbage to post,,be sure to let us know...

 

 

Hang Ashcroft!!! :mrgreen: v

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Well if ya think of anymore garbage to post,,be sure to let us know...

OK. I'm thinking real hard. :lol:

 

 

**thinks hard****thinks harder****

 

New definition of garbage:Anything supportive of or positive about the current administration and cabinet.

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Mr. Ashcroft needs to be put to death. No single person I can remember has sought to strip Americans of more rights then he has. With his idea of torture, and other crimes against humanity along with holding people indefinitely without charges, without access to the red cross, without access to legal representation, and without due process is bad enough and about as immoral as anything I have seen from any brutal dictator, but to propose the death penalty considering his attitude towrads their legal rights is out of the question.

 

McCarthyism was bad enough, this idiot Ashcroft wants to point a finger and have the power to kill. I think the people in his home state were correct when they elected a dead man rather then elect him.

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The Supreme Court pooped in Ashcroft's mess kit today-=-seems those uncharged prisioners DO have rights to due process--- I'll bet that the Justice Department finds ways to deny those rights--- Impeach Ashcroft---and his companions as well.

 

:angry::angry:

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Just release all the prisoners and let them go about their buisness and save the taxpayers a lot of $$$$.

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OK. I'm thinking real hard. :lol:

 

 

**thinks hard****thinks harder****

 

New definition of garbage:Anything supportive of or positive about the current administration and cabinet.

Quit sneakin them damn edits in on me...

 

 

I am a registered republican...

 

 

Ashcroft is an abomination to that party and all it stood for.

 

 

He needs t be strung up,, then drawn and quartered. :) v

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Mr. Ashcroft needs to be put to death. No single person I can remember has sought to strip Americans of more rights then he has.

 

That might be a bit harsh Bruce... Ashcroft definitely doesn't know how to handle the position of authority he was put in....

 

Hopefully someone on "Capitol Hill" will wake up and see he's a lunatic and give him his walking papers

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No more harsh then he wishes to treat others. I'd at least be willing to let him talk to a lawyer before his sentence was caried out. :rolleyes: Of course following in his ideals, there would be no charges, no trial, just the sentence.

 

This man is just plain evil, corrupt, distorted in his idea's of American principles, rights, and freedoms. He has no business being in a position of power in a free nation. The man is a criminal in my eyes, that simple.

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I have a question

 

 

how many of you have had something in your life actually changed by the patriot act as of right now?

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Thats like asking how many people were affected by racial segregation and discrimination. Because I am a white male and never experienced a relative being lynched, hung, dragged by a pickup truck till dead or not allowed to go where I want when I want doesn't mean I don't think people of color don't deserve the same rights as every other American.

 

The point is it is wrong, and goes against the very grain of the things this country "used to stand for". Personal freedom, the right to a trial by a jury of your peers, the right to legal representation, the right to be free unless charged and convicted of a crime, the right to not be tortured, the right to not be falsly imprisoned. I would truly not want to be a person of Arab decent living in this country right now. I would fear reprisals and being thrown in jail for saying the very things I do not fear saying as a white (European Decent) American.

 

The power of the Justice Department and the power of the Executive branch have clearly been abused, the Supreme Court has seen fit to say so.

 

Those abuses can never be tolerated, especially when it has the potential to infringe on the basic rights of Americans and humanity as a whole.

 

Because I have never been shot by a crooked cop, doesn't mean I think cops should be able to run around shooting anyone they deem needs shooting. ................................There are a million similar comparisons.

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why do you always get all defensive about everything, I wasnt about to jump in here and defend the entire patriot act I was just curious if anyone had any real expierience with its aspects.

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Henry;  The patriot act sucks. Ashcroft sucks too. I see the patriot act as the governments way of ethnic cleasing. Who will they target once they have their version of the patriot act in full effect? Doesn't take too much thinking to figure that out.

Ethnic cleansing is becoming quite popular with this administration. However, the UK BBC is reporting that Bush's ratings are at an all-time low. Good on yer, America.

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Thats like asking how many people were affected by racial segregation and discrimination. Because I am a white male and never experienced a relative being lynched, hung, dragged by a pickup truck till dead or not allowed to go where I want when I want doesn't mean I don't think people of color don't deserve the same rights as every other American.

 

The point is it is wrong, and goes against the very grain of the things this country "used to stand for". Personal freedom, the right to a trial by a jury of your peers, the right to legal representation, the right to be free unless charged and convicted of a crime, the right to not be tortured, the right to not be falsly imprisoned. I would truly not want to be a person of Arab decent living in this country right now. I would fear reprisals and being thrown in jail for saying the very things I do not fear saying as a white (European Decent) American.

 

The power of the Justice Department and the power of the Executive branch have clearly been abused, the Supreme Court has seen fit to say so.

 

Those abuses can never be tolerated, especially when it has the potential to infringe on the basic rights of Americans and humanity as a whole.

 

Because I have never been shot by a crooked cop, doesn't mean I think cops should be able to run around shooting anyone they deem needs shooting. ................................There are a million similar comparisons.

good on you man, you are quite right!!

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Mr. Ashcroft needs to be put to death. No single person I can remember has sought to strip Americans of more rights then he has.

 

That might be a bit harsh Bruce... Ashcroft definitely doesn't know how to handle the position of authority he was put in....

 

Hopefully someone on "Capitol Hill" will wake up and see he's a lunatic and give him his walking papers

No qualms with me wanting him drawn and quartered tho huh?? :lol: v

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Bruce- I disagree with you. I am white and felt no direct overt discrimination. Certainly I was affected by not having much contact with people simply because they were darker skinned than me. I may have been affected because some of them were not able to get into medical school or law school because of their skin color and therefore in the past with a shortage of doctors I may have suffered but I think most concerned people of any race were adversely affected when our name (in the form of the government) was used to perpetrate an injustice.

 

As for how I am affected now. We can't know now can we. Just as in the 50s when the FBI collected information that was used to keep people out of jobs or get them fired it was not known for years that information was being collected and used. As long as we can be secretly tape recorded or detained with out charges we can't know when we will have black hooded swat teams breaking down our bedroom doors.

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As for how I am affected now. We can't know now can we. Just as in the 50s when the FBI collected information that was used to keep people out of jobs or get them fired it was not known for years that information was being collected and used. As long as we can be secretly tape recorded or detained with out charges we can't know when we will have black hooded swat teams breaking down our bedroom doors.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5318070/

 

Volt looks like we need to be careful what we say, you wouldn't want to be locked up as being insane would you? :mrsgreen:

 

Walsh also said he believes somebody reported him to the Secret Service after hearing him making comments wishing harm to Bush during a conversation with a Bush campaign worker.

 

 

"I said Bush was terrible and deserved to be killed, but I never said I would do it," Walsh said.

Looks like the freedom of speech is now considered insanity unless you like the Bushies. Certainly someone "vocally" supporting the Iraqi resistance may not be popular, but I fail to see how it is an illegal expression. I also fail to see how wishing someone were dead is illegal, that is of course unless people now have genies in bottles granting wishes on a whim.

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The Patriot Act is an abomination of the American constitution. Ashcroft is a heel. Cheney is a serpent. Wolfowitz is worm. Bush is a willing patsy.

 

I

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Volt looks like we need to be careful what we say, you wouldn't want to be locked up as being insane would you? :mrsgreen:

 

 

Kinda scary huh?? they do have way too much power IMO.

 

 

I never said anything about bush,,but I still reserve the right to say what I damn well please about him or anyone else in goverment,, I suppose I should keep a smilie after each comment tho. :lol: v

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