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Stop Supporting Ethnic Cleansing


moon
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Why is it that the buffer zone has to come out of the Palestinian territory? This is the same reasoning that has allowed "buffer zones" around the Israeli settlements in Gaza and the West Bank. So they take a big chunk of Palestinan land, then wipe out the Palestinian settlements nearby to protect themselves. It seems like Israel can do anything they want to the Palestinians in the name of Israeli security, short of lining them up and shooting them all at once.

Who is doing all the suicide bombing ???? Killing children going to school or eating ? Atheist are really blind aren`t they ? Most people see what they want and are blind to what they don`t want to see ! Which do you fall into ????
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Most people see what they want and are blind to what they don`t want to see !

You proved your own argument.

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Man read the bible if you have one ??? Anti-Sematic !!!

eze16, I was born with an open mind and then it got slammed shut by misinformed adults. After a great deal of hard work I managed to get it open again. You can too. If you've got any evidence in support of Sharon , wheel it out.

 

Thus far, the support for Sharon points out that subjugated Palestinian madmen sometimes assassinate innocent Israelis and that there is a crazed element within Palestine that objects to Israel's existence at all. Go ahead and add to it. The objectors have produced a wealth of evidence indicating that Sharon is guilty of ethnic cleansing and genocide. He is already wanted for war crimes and is a self-confessed assassin. Go ahead and exonerate him. This is a debate and I have an open mind.

Edited by moon
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Looks to me like they do now unequivoically, at the pre 1967 war boundaries. From your second link:

The PLO has accepted that Israel’s 1967 Pre-Occupation borders (the “Green Line”) shall serve as the international border between the states of Palestine and Israel. In other words, Palestinians have recognized Israel on 78% of historic Palestine while accepting to create a state on the remaining 22%.

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eze16, I was born with an open mind and then it got slammed shut by misinformed adults. After a great deal of hard work I managed to get it open again. You can too. If you've got any evidence in support of Sharon , wheel it out.

 

Thus far, the support for Sharon points out that subjugated Palestinian madmen sometimes assassinate innocent Israelis and that there is a crazed element within Palestine that objects to Israel's existence at all. Go ahead and add to it. The objectors have produced a wealth of evidence indicating that Sharon is guilty of ethnic cleansing and genocide. He is already wanted for war crimes and is a self-confessed assassin. Go ahead and exonerate him. This is a debate and I have an open mind.

A life time of bombing and killing your people should be enough. But maybe we should do as you say and just let them do as they please and we could give them money everytime they blow someone up or or destroy something ! We could do as the liberals in the past and give Arafat who by the way started terroisim ,money to passify the terrorists. Maybe we should have just let Al Quaida and the Taliban kepp us hostages in OUR country? Yea we could do as the Berkley folks do and as Johnny Walker did and join in their effort ? Maybe thats what you want but some of us here in the US are not cowards . It is hard to negoitate with barbarric people !!!! You may think paying them or talking to them will help,but I have been in that situation before and talking does not work. I hope they work it out so as to not have anymore violence at all,but if your mind is open then we don`t need to weld meatal together on ships to make them float! They would be held together just by your thoughts. Open minded ???? Since this thread started you have attacked every statement that did`nt go your way !! What you need to do is send your money and support the Hesbolla,Al Quaida,PLO. I want my money to support stopping terroisim not to support it as you say. Thanks.
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You may think paying them or talking to them will help,but I have been in that situation before and talking does not work

Incorrect. The peace process between the British Governemt and the IRA proves you wrong. You remember the IRA? They are the group who killed many civillians and troops in the UK with the aid of USA dollars.

 

To suggest that one of our more respected members sends money to terrorist groups is beneath contempt. That is possibly one of the worst 'persoanl attacks' I have witnessed on this forum.

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eze16, you've clearly failed to understand anything I've written. You've got the opportunity to defend Sharon, his ethnic cleansing policy and his annexation of the West Bank, so take it. Personal attacks will get you nowhere. ( Ta, Sir T. ) Note well though, as you haven't understood my position, that my attitude to terrorists, and how they should be dealt with, makes me a hardliner on this forum. You're confusing terrorists with the crushed peoples of Palestine. So, defend Sharon if you can . The thread is about ethnic cleansing and Sharon's failure.

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Incorrect. The peace process between the British Governemt and the IRA proves you wrong. You remember the IRA? They are the group who killed many civillians and troops in the UK with the aid of USA dollars.

 

To suggest that one of our more respected members sends money to terrorist groups is beneath contempt. That is possibly one of the worst 'persoanl attacks' I have witnessed on this forum.

Sir , we are not in the 5th grade any longer. Moon gets mad ,so you get mad. Childish !!! Don`t start a thread that gets tough then scream FOUL !! Because you have made a lot of posts ,does`nt make either of you right. I have been a member from the beginning,but mostly read,and not talk. But because you guy`s have a lot of posts and are cyber friends does`nt mean I or anyone else has to just read your posts and take it for the truth. I am an AMERICAN ,and am proud to be one I have had family ,friends and 2 sons serve and DIE for the freedom of this country ,and it turns my stomach to hear people that are just talkers run my country and the people down that live here !!!! Yes I am conservative,but when a liberal or anyone in power is in office they are my President,and leaders. So if you live here in the US,act like it. If not then don`t run us down for our efforts to try and keep peace. WMD was found in a spider hole,in Iraq ! If they never find weapons, finding that one was good enough for me. The Americans that live in the USA, should be proud of us making an effort to stop the ignorance of these barbarric people`s. If you have a plan that will work give your plan on here now,it would be a start . If all you can do is critisize ,and have no answers then please keep it to yourself,and by the way the right you have to free speach is because of young men like my 2 son`s that will die for you,so you can say what you feel. If you are going to take a stand on something then please do ,but don`t be like Kerry ,who has (No Plan) except to say the other party is wrong. Kind of like this, ( I don`t know what to do or have no plan ,but I know you are wrong ) If you have no plan and don`t know what to do,then how do you know everyone else is wrong but you and a couple that have made a lot of posts. Senority does`nt make you smart or right. I have been here as long if not longer that most of you ,but that does`nt make me right either. So in closing ,if you have no more to say except that I have insulted some of the high posting members,then don`t start a thread that you can`t handle. Thanks and good luck my friends
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now you have.

 

hi one 2, im angela, nice to meet you. :P

 

angela

Angela ,hi . May I ask a question ? I have been a member here for a long time but have`nt made many posts. So my question is this . Is there a CLICK ,going on on this forum or not ?? Have a nice day,and please reply if there is or not. I don`t want to get in trouble for disagreeing with anyone .
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Who mentioned anything about number of posts made? The number of posts one has made has no bearing on you insulting them or not.

 

Now back to the point....

 

Your pride in your country is admirable. Your pride in those that have served and died for your country is even more admirable :) I would point out though that you are not the only person to have family and friends die in service of their country. Us little non-Americans also fight in wars too ;)

 

Where we really seem to disagree is on the issue of

If not then don`t run us down for our efforts to try and keep peace

. I hold the view that our governments have done more harm to world peace than good. (Moon would disagree with me on that). As for alternatives to those of the right wing war mongers running our 2 countries - I would like to see the 'proper' authority, the UN, in Iraq. Not some gung ho, under qualified yahoo's who think they are in a John Wayne movie. Nor some wannabe nazi's who take pleasure from torturing prisoners. I want the coalition of death and destruction to leave Iraq and let those with the smarts to do the job properly take over. Hopefully our leaders will do a good job of begging for Kofi's forgiveness and it will happen sooner rather than later.

 

Finally, I feel I have the right to criticise OUR leaders when it is their policies that are making this world unsafe for my kids to grow up in. Nobody here has a monopoly on opinions and who has the right to give them. If you have made 1 post or a million posts, you have an equal right to express your opinion - just try and give it without the personal insults please :)

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I was born with an open mind and then it got slammed shut by misinformed adults. After a great deal of hard work I managed to get it open again. You can too.

Sad, Adolf Hitler said the same exact thing.

 

 

I can find evidence that aliens exist, doesn't make it true. All the evidence you've posted has been entirely circumstantial. As far as "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" goes, no sorry, time to read the dictionary again, Israel is guilty of neither. Like I stated before, if Israel was TRULY guilty of genocide, every Palestinian and probably most of the Arabs in the Middle East would be dead. Engaging insurgants (whether terrorist or not) in bloody gunbattles is not nor has it ever been a method of committing genocide, it isn't efficient.

 

Again, if you feel so strongly about these BS "autocracies," then go do something about it, don't talk about it on the internet.

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QUOTE (moon @ May 26 2004, 11:07 PM)

I was born with an open mind and then it got slammed shut by misinformed adults. After a great deal of hard work I managed to get it open again. You can too.  

 

Sad, Adolf Hitler said the same exact thing.

 

He did :huh: Where, when?

 

Again, if you feel so strongly about these BS "autocracies," then go do something about it, don't talk about it on the internet.

:lol:

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I'm a little confused about why this thread is being seen as some kind of attack on America. I thought it was an attack on the government of Israel!

 

I don't think anyone is saying that what the terrorists do is right. But just because they are not right, it does not automatically follow that what Israel does is right. There is guilt on both sides of this conflict and the blood of innocent lives is on the hands of Palestinian and Israeli extremists alike.

 

I've said it before and I will say it again. The only way to achieve peace in the middle east is through dialogue. Years of violence have just produced dead bodies and hatred. No one is saying that negotiations will be quick or easy, but they've tried the other way for 40 years, and where has that got them?

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Funny how the meaning of these old books gets all jumbled up in the translation :P

 

Closest I could find....

 

Then barely eleven years old, I was forced into opposition for the first time in my life. Hard and determined as my father might be in putting through plans and purposes once conceived his son was just as persistent and recalcitrant in rejecting an idea which appealed to him not at all, or in any case very little.

 

but still nothing like Moonies statement ;)

 

 

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/...f/mkv1ch01.html

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Funny how the meaning of these old books gets all jumbled up in the translation :P

 

Closest I could find....

 

Then barely eleven years old, I was forced into opposition for the first time in my life. Hard and determined as my father might be in putting through plans and purposes once conceived his son was just as persistent and recalcitrant in rejecting an idea which appealed to him not at all, or in any case very little.

 

but still nothing like Moonies statement ;)

 

 

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/...f/mkv1ch01.html

It happens all the time, German is a very hard language to translate and I used to be fluent.

 

Ever try reading the Bible or Tanakh in Hebrew, Greek, or Latin, it's a vastly different story.

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Sad, Adolf Hitler said the same exact thing.

I can understand the subject of Israel/Palestine being very sensitive to Americans as your present administration is funding the very Israeli actions which I call ethnic cleansing and genocide. I've posted my links to very credible sources to illustrate my points. However, it's a subject which needs addressing if the war on terrorism, in which we are all involved, is to be won. That's why I'm discussing it. However, if the weight of evidence is too much for the supporters of Sharon, don't think that you can anger me with statements like the one above and succeed in having the thread closed. I simply wont rise to the bait.

 

Whilst never having served in the military myself I'm from a military family. My grandfather and father respectively fought in and survived two world wars, the second against fascism. If the internet had existed then, and my father had been allowed to speak his anti-fascist mind then it might have gone some way towards warning people of the dangers of fascism before war broke out. It didn't exist, but it does now. I'm claiming that the current behaviour of the incumbent Israeli government is approaching fascism. I've posted many credible sources which agree, including the Israeli Justice minister himself and United Nations condemnations. If anybody wants to defend the recent actions of the Sharon government, do so. For my part I will try to convince you, with evidence, that you are wrong to so do.

 

I've refrained from posting the most horrendous, unbelievably cruel and sickening accounts of Israeli action in Palestine because, frankly, they would offend by their graphic language some of the adults here, let alone the youngsters that tune in. I ask you then to keep your input civil, inoffensive and to the point. If you have any credible evidence that disputes what the world says about Sharon, add it to the discussion. If you break the forum rules in so doing then I hope that the moderators will deal with you personally and let the thread run. I know it's an emotive topic but it can't be ignored forever.

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Funny how the meaning of these old books gets all jumbled up in the translation  :P

 

Closest I could find....

 

Then barely eleven years old, I was forced into opposition for the first time in my life. Hard and determined as my father might be in putting through plans and purposes once conceived his son was just as persistent and recalcitrant in rejecting an idea which appealed to him not at all, or in any case very little.

 

but still nothing like Moonies statement ;)

 

 

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/...f/mkv1ch01.html

It happens all the time, German is a very hard language to translate and I used to be fluent.

 

Ever try reading the Bible or Tanakh in Hebrew, Greek, or Latin, it's a vastly different story.

Yup, I've read some of the Bible in Latin when at school - very different. Kinda makes it hard for everyone to agree on things with so many interpretations flying about doesn't it :)
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