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Stop Supporting Ethnic Cleansing


moon
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Exactly on topic for this thread, Z10N, that's the perfect definition of ethnic cleansing. Finally someone defines the term in practical words. Those stinky old Palestinians weren't doing anything useful with the land, so who cares if we boot them out?

 

I can't understand why the Arab world hates us...

No, I never said boot them out, I said "if they weren't there," what would the situation be like.

 

If you notice I also presented a situation where the Jews were not present in the region, but you said nothing about that, odd huh?

i dont think you asked what the situation would be like if the jews weren't there, I think you TOLD us what the situation would be like...
Yep, that was a statement, not a question, nothing wrong with that, but what's your point?

 

 

BTW, I gotta say everyone is in my "cool-book" andgets a gold star for for contributing to an excellent but touchy topic while remaining completely civil. Keep it up... some of you get 2 gold stars since I know it's a challange for ya. :P :beer:

 

:D

My point is that you are TELIN Gus about what would hapen - yet in alater post you say that journalists are trained to take an angle on a story (i.e. introduce personal bias,aka "the angle") then proceed to push that.

 

Seems to me you have decided how the territory would be BEFORE it happens.

 

how do you know this?

 

It seems to me that the whole thrust of your argument is based upon that supposition, which suggests maybe your argument is shaky

It was a HYPOTHETICAL and probable situation.
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Who was here first the Idigenous Or the ones who "found" America? And I don't have to read history books to know how my ancestors were very nearly exterminated. They are still some of the poorest and treated the worst. What was and has been done to them was extremely evil and it continues in ALOT of ways.

 

Lith good post and why do you think people consider you a Nazi? :(

The 'Native Americans' weren't indigenous, they emmigrated from Asia.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=indigenous

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Exactly on topic for this thread, Z10N, that's the perfect definition of ethnic cleansing. Finally someone defines the term in practical words. Those stinky old Palestinians weren't doing anything useful with the land, so who cares if we boot them out?

 

I can't understand why the Arab world hates us...

No, I never said boot them out, I said "if they weren't there," what would the situation be like.

 

If you notice I also presented a situation where the Jews were not present in the region, but you said nothing about that, odd huh?

i dont think you asked what the situation would be like if the jews weren't there, I think you TOLD us what the situation would be like...
Yep, that was a statement, not a question, nothing wrong with that, but what's your point?

 

 

BTW, I gotta say everyone is in my "cool-book" andgets a gold star for for contributing to an excellent but touchy topic while remaining completely civil. Keep it up... some of you get 2 gold stars since I know it's a challange for ya. :P :beer:

 

:D

My point is that you are TELIN Gus about what would hapen - yet in alater post you say that journalists are trained to take an angle on a story (i.e. introduce personal bias,aka "the angle") then proceed to push that.

 

Seems to me you have decided how the territory would be BEFORE it happens.

 

how do you know this?

 

It seems to me that the whole thrust of your argument is based upon that supposition, which suggests maybe your argument is shaky

It was a HYPOTHETICAL and probable situation.
yuo are quite right - the 2 situations you posited were stated as hypothetical.

 

In which cae - why are these th eONLY 2 situations you hypothesised? They seem biased to me.

Hhow about, the Jewish population withdraw and the Palestinians live peacefully in their newly recognised state?

 

OR - the Palestinians and the Israelis learn to live together peacefully, hsaring responsibility for many of the religiously-significant sites?

 

Except, wait just a moment...it MIGHT have already started.

 

http://www.ipcri.org/index1.html

 

 

A quote form an article therein

 

"Jerusalem will never be a unified city unless it can be shared. The possibility for sharing Jerusalem will only be met once the two sides and their leaders cut down on the rhetoric which polarizes and instead, begin to help the public, on both sides, understand the true character of Jerusalem. "

 

- Gershon Baskin

 

Now I have no idea about the "true nature of Jerusalem" but I sure like the idea of leaders cutting down on the rhetoric.

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They were meant to be condensed versions of two extremes, the point of which is this...

 

Arabs and Jews throughout history have (for the most part) been able to live in harmony side by side as brothers. However, when Palastinians are introduced into the equasion (whether it be Jews, Arabs, or any other people), violence insues. So who is the problem, the Palastinians, or the rest of the world?

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yeah but have you noticed that those guys are dead?

 

Maybe th eUKs most wanted list ISA a dangerous list to be on after all...

yeah but have you noticed that those guys are dead?

Yeah, so is Menachem Begin. But he G. Wash., and T. Jeff. all died of natural causes as far as I know. Or maybe they were slain with a sticky wickett or the jawbone of an #%^*!. Can't trust "the media" too much.
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Sounds to me like an idealised Israeli definition

Yea, it's part of that "global Jewish conspiracy." :rolleyes:

 

Perhaps if you'd do your OWN research instead of reiterating what some biased journalist has written in order to boost ratings, you'd know what I know.

Edited by Z10N
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Zion are you saying the entire Palestine population should be eliminated?

Pardon me, I know the question is not addressed to me. But are you reading the same thread that I am? Where has ZION or anyone else suggested such a thing? Just curious.
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Just exactly what is it that you do know that we do not Zion? Please enlighten the class  :)

In relation to this topic?

 

Simply put, what the general public around the world sees on television and reads in newspapers concerning the topic of the Middle-East situation is not reality.

 

A proper anology... Can one grasp the essence of a vast garden by studying but a single flower?

 

All too often the media (on both sides of the bias spectrum) looks at a situation through telephoto lens, when in fact they should be using a nice wide-angle lens to capture the whole picture.

Edited by Z10N
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Pardon me, I know the question is not addressed to me. But are you reading the same thread that I am? Where has ZION or anyone else suggested such a thing? Just curious.

No one suggested any such notion, some people by nature read too much or too little into a situation, as a result words are twisted and bizarre, illogical conclusions are drawn. Edited by Z10N
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No one suggested any such notion, some people by nature read too much or too little into a situation, as a result words are twisted and bizarre, illogical conclusions are drawn.

Nothing bizarre or illogical just a question. What do you propose is the most peaceful solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict? If you were the one who could actually have the power to change the situation over there.. what are some of the first steps you would take ?
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Z1On, why don't you learn how to spell Palestinian correctly - or is that an intentional showing of your bias?

 

Tracy, I get called a racist Nazi all the time, just because I don't support the current US/Israel/Zionist status quo. Never ever have I said that the Jews must die, never have I Hailed or should I say Heiled Hitler, but I guess it's just not cool to be for peace.

 

Israelis have gotten massacred by Palestinian suicide bombers, and Palestinians have been massacred by Sharon's whim.

Peace will only come when the tools in power are removed. Average Aaron Israeli certainly doesn't want to get blown up at the mall, but do you think Average Ali Palestinian wants to live under a system of apartheid?

 

Didn't Northern Ireland and England achieve a sort of peace recently? Israel and Palestine could do the same, but first there must be a real state of Palestine, not lands occupied by an oppressive and mighty US-funded genocidal regime.

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At least Green had the balls to say it though, he doesn't support US/Israel status quo. I don't neccesarily agree with you but you had the guts to admit it. So many people here want to try to justify the American massacres yet Israel isn't allowed to do the very same thing? If Canadians were running across the border with bombs strapped to their backs and started blowing up hundreds of people at a time you would expect some action, wouldn't you? Perhaps a wall to contain bombers, and in the extremes go and knock down the establishments that house these suicide bombers. That is what Israel is doing.

 

Z10N was very correct about the selective reporting, all you hear is in blue text, what really happened is the total quote. "13 year old Boy with intentions to blow up market shot to death by Israeli troops". The media tries to persuade citizen's by playing on their emotions.

 

Damn shame so many of you cry when it happens to you, but can't put youself in their shoes. Planes fly into buildings kill thousands, suicide bombers kill 50 people on a bus, train blows up in Spain, train blows up in Russia ---> It's all the same! If we don't start working together to fight terrorism then we are doomed, we don't trust eachother enough to save ourselves. This is one time I agree with Bush, Palestine is wrong; bombing innocent people isn't going to help them, they have to stop instigating fights with Israel.

It's like taunting the dog, you taunt him enough and you'll get bit; who do you cry to when it is all over though? It was your own damn fault now suck it up!

Edited by Salo35
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If Canadians were running across the border with bombs strapped to their backs and started blowing up hundreds of people at a time

There would be absolutely no reason to. I don't support suicide bombing as its a cowardly way to "take care of business" so to speak, but they are oppressed people. Some of them are off the wall to the point where they take drastic measures. It just isn't the right thing to do. Nonetheless...... that argument doesn't hold water as no one is occupying Canada forcefully and strangling any chance of prosperity.

 

Z10N was very correct about the selective reporting, all you hear is in blue text, what really happened is the total quote. "13 year old Boy with intentions to blow up market shot to death by Israeli troops". The media tries to persuade citizen's by playing on their emotions.

Give me an example of such reporting. More than half the time, all you ever read about is either militant death or Israeli death. I think GreenTilDeath was more accurate when you hear about the Palestinian death 15 pages down the line. And I saw some of the treatment of people there and if you are about to tell me a child with NO EXPLOSIVES or no weapons on hand deserves to have the stuffing kicked out of him, then yourself would be a monster (I'm going based on whether or not you saw such video, I'm not calling you a monster now... if you know what I mean)

 

Planes fly into buildings kill thousands

If you mean 9/11, it wasnt palestinians

 

suicide bombers kill 50 people on a bus

Again.... militants with intent of killing citizens..... yet something like this doesnt happen all the time. Its thwarted or it just doesn't happen. If it did, the current death toll would reflect so. These are not regular civilians doing this (militants are civilians, but there are non militant civilians too ya know)

 

train blows up in Spain

Not related to palestine.

 

train blows up in Russia

Wasn't palestinian militants

 

It's all the same! If we don't start working together to fight terrorism then we are doomed, we don't trust eachother enough to save ourselves. This is one time I agree with Bush, Palestine is wrong; bombing innocent people isn't going to help them, they have to stop instigating fights with Israel.

No its not all the same. Yes its all terrorism. Each have their own reasons behind the actions though. Can't group them all in the same boat. Wanna list more terrorism? Ok lets see..... I wonder how many homicides there are in the world.... Gang wars... hmmmm... sex molesters, offenders....... kidnappers..... all forms of terrorism. Why stop at those worldly events. If your going to group them all, then group them ALL.

Instigation comes from both sides. But to blame "PALESTINE" as a whole is just not right. I don't blame Israel as a whole. You saw the march in tel aviv. Thats a damn lotta people that want peace. DAMN LOTS. Sharons plan has been shot down by almost every damn country in the world. Its pretty obvious that 70%..... while Z10n tries to pass off as incorrect, sounds pretty accurate to me.

 

It's like taunting the dog, you taunt him enough and you'll get bit; who do you cry to when it is all over though? It was your own damn fault now suck it up!

Dogs have small minds with a max IQ of around 20. The analogy couldn't correctly describe whats going on out there, because its much more complicated than that. Again.... do you see whats going on? What media do you listen to? Or watch? Do they show whats going on in full, or do they...hmmm whats the word..... censor certain parts. Remember the blue text explanation you gave? Same happens on the other side of the coin. Don't kid yourself when you think the media will slant towards Palestinians. Thats waaaaaaaay off course in thinking as its usually vice versa ;)

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Despite the personal views of some here, which I would describe as trumpeting from the far Right, it is obvious that the great majority of Israelis want to withdraw from Palestine. These quotes are drawn from the Israeli press. So, I repeat a question asked earlier.

How can you be 'pro-Israel' and yet want the Israelis to remain in Palestine ? It is against their wishes. If you do want Israelis to remain in Palestine then you must subscribe to the extreme Right. Please say so instead of calling yourself 'pro-Israeli' Read the Israeli press. They want out.

 

Shavit's point is simple. It is the settlers' movement - not the Israeli public -- that defeated Prime Minister Sharon's Gaza withdrawal plan. Every poll of the Israeli public showed overwhelming support for getting out of Gaza. Every poll of Likud party members showed the same thing. Israelis across the spectrum want out.

http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?en...ws&enVersion=0&

 

It is time for Israelis to say that enough is enough.

 

Shavit puts it like this. "For a long time, there was justification for showing understanding toward the settlers. There was justification for talking with them, carrying on a dialogue with them. Not any more. The attempt of the organized settlement movement to force on the citizens of Israel a war that is not their war is unforgivable. The attempt of the settlers to turn the public into the cannon fodder of the Greater Land of Israel obliges a resolute response. Because after the disengagement referendum, one thing is clear: It is either Israelis or settlers."

Edited by moon
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GBPackersFan2004,

 

The USA isn't attacking Canada yet, but I expect it...in due time. We have a great deal of the world's fresh water, alot of the world's oil...hell we got billions of reasons tied up in the oilsands why some one would attack us. That would be enough provokation to commit terrorist acts. It is called an anology, but you wanted a justifacation so there you have it.

 

Example of biased reporting

 

As for my other examples of planes flying into buildings killing thousands, trains blowing up...they are all linked to terrorism, I assumed people would read the entire thing after rather than taking pieces out of context. This sentence followed those examples

It's all the same! If we don't start working together to fight terrorism then we are doomed, we don't trust eachother enough to save ourselves

No where do I claim Palestine is responsible for every attack, I am merely staing the importance of co-operation in this battle against terrorist actions.

The motives behind the attacks may differ but the effects and objectives are no different, people die and fear is often enstilled in those left living. Watch that video with Nick Berg getting his head cut off, these terrorists have a valid cause; they want Americans out of Iraq yet there is still outrage around the world that a civilian was killed. People like this may have valid motives such as those terrorists or the Palestinians, but they don't give a sh!t about the innocent people.

 

Dogs have small minds with a max IQ of around 20. The analogy couldn't correctly describe whats going on out there, because its much more complicated than that. Again.... do you see whats going on? What media do you listen to? Or watch? Do they show whats going on in full, or do they...hmmm whats the word..... censor certain parts. Remember the blue text explanation you gave? Same happens on the other side of the coin. Don't kid yourself when you think the media will slant towards Palestinians. Thats waaaaaaaay off course in thinking as its usually vice versa

It's called an anology for a reason, you are reading far too much into it. You gotta be smarter than to provoke enemies, Palestinian's will blow up a bus load of people then b!tch when their homes are destroyed. It's cause and effect. I'd like to know what message the Paelstinians are demonstrating by detonating bombs in crowded areas killing military and innocent people? I am not so naive as to think this is a one way street, nor do I think Palestine is completely responsible for this battle. Both sides must work together, either Israel has to stop retaliating or Palestinians must stop these bombings.

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