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Stop Supporting Ethnic Cleansing


moon
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Because, consider the alternative... if America and Britian didn't support the Jewish State of Israel, the Hebrew people would be a nearly extinct species. With no Jews in the world, guess who's next on the "infidel death-list," Christians (I.E. Western Civilization).

What about the African Jews? Won't they exterminate them first before they take on the Christians? :woot::woot:
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Actually, I think it's a valid question. We were talking specifically about Israel. Do the extremists want to destroy ALL Jews, all over the world, or are they only concerned with getting rid of Israel and reclaiming their 'holy' land?

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Actually, I think it's a valid question.  We were talking specifically about Israel.  Do the extremists want to destroy ALL Jews, all over the world, or are they only concerned with getting rid of Israel and reclaiming their 'holy' land?

Arab nations don't care what countries have Jews living within their boarders, just that those Jews are dead. Israel is a target because of proximity, if Israel were to fall, global Jewry would be next on the hit-list, then every other "infidel" according to Islam starting with Christianity. Unless you were a fundamentalist Muslim, your name would fall somewhere on the list sooner or later.

 

Remember Entebbe and the Munich Olympics?

 

 

 

 

 

Way to contribute Angela. If you aren't going to adhere to the topic of discussion, then please don't post.

Edited by Z10N
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Daily entertainment this thread :mrgreen:

Personally I find it getting increasingly offensive - particularly Zions posts ("can't you read?" being a classic example).

 

Also his repeated assertion that ALL arabs are out to kill ALL jews - talk about racist assumptions and ideological blindness.

 

Sorry for returning after promising to stay away - the posts recently form some have become increasingly vindictive and as a "debate" it has been dead for a long time.

 

The kind of insults traded here is one of the reasons I don't actively contribute any more.

 

Paul

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Personally I find it getting increasingly offensive - particularly Zions posts ("can't you read?" being a classic example).

 

Also his repeated assertion that ALL arabs are out to kill ALL jews - talk about racist assumptions and ideological blindness.

 

Sorry for returning after promising to stay away - the posts recently form some have become increasingly vindictive and as a "debate" it has been dead for a long time.

 

The kind of insults traded here is one of the reasons I don't actively contribute any more.

 

Paul

Umm, where did I say "ALL Arabs want to kill ALL Jews?" Oh I didn't, please don't put words in my mouth.

 

Don't quote me unless you can do it properly.

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Arab nations don't care what countries have Jews living within their boarders, just that those Jews are dead. Israel is a target because of proximity, if Israel were to fall, global Jewry would be next on the hit-list, then every other "infidel" according to Islam starting with Christianity. Unless you were a fundamentalist Muslim, your name would fall somewhere on the list sooner or later.

 

http://www.islamfortoday.com/harun02.htm

 

Our hope is that these measures will help to the world get rid of terrorism and all other bigoted, brutal, barbarous structures. With its Christian-dominated culture and population, the United States, that defines itself as "a nation under God", is in fact a real friend of the Muslims. In the Qur'an, God draws attention to this fact and informs us that Christians are those who are "most affectionate to those who believe". (Surat al-Ma'ida: 82)

Z10N, the problem I have with what you posted is that the assumption is that all Muslims are extremist/fundamentalists. I take a different view that the majority want to live peaceful lives and couldn't care less if you are a Muslim, Jew or Christian. Sadly, it is those who shout the loudest and stir the most hate that get the headlines that fuel the belief that all Muslims either are terrorists or will be terrorists. I simply cannot believe that.

 

It seems to me that the root cause of all these problems is a relatively small peace of land in the middle east that two different groups of people think they have a divine right to live in. If all the Jews in Israel left tommorrow and went to live somewhere else, I'm pretty sure that 90% of the so-called Islamic Terrorism would stop. However, this is not going to happen, anymore than the Palestinians suddenly deciding that they don't want to live there either.

 

So what's to be done? Either take the last man standing route or try and achieve a compromise. I know what I would do, I just don't know if the people concerned can see past their hatred long enough to do the same.

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If all the Jews in Israel left tommorrow and went to live somewhere else,  I'm pretty sure that 90% of the so-called Islamic Terrorism would stop.

 

History has proven otherwise, the reason that the Palestinian people are in Israel is that they were kicked out of other Arab nations for violent actions such as terrorism. If the Jews were to leave, the violence would be shifted to another target nation, likely Saudi Arabia. But why should the Jews be the ones to leave, it is OUR homeland, if it is necessary fo any group to leave, it WILL be the Palestinians.

 

 

 

Of course my statements on Arabs and Jews were generalizations, I have already stated this several times, I went on the assumption that people had 'common sense' and would realize that I didn't mean "every last Arab, wants to kill every last Jew."

Edited by Z10N
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I'm pretty sure that 90% of the so-called Islamic Terrorism would stop.  

I am not getting into this battle but this statement cant be more wrong. They have admitted that they want all Israelis dead. Moving is not the answer
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Ok folks,, I'm seeing way too many pointed comments on this one.

 

Problem is,, they are pointed toward other members.

 

I hate closing threads,, but thats the next thing thats going to happen if it don't cease.

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I agree Tracy :) I also like Z1ONs posts (well, most of them :lol: ). They seem to be well informed and are often very educational. What I don't like is the way that some members seem to zone in on Z1ONs posts and try to attack him over and over on a personal level. It is so blatant most of the time and to be honest, I'm more than a little disappointed that it isn't picked up on by the mods more often.

 

We cannot expect to like everyone that posts in this forum - that's a given, but if you dislike a posts content, why not PM them instead of trying to induce a fight all the GD time. I know I sometimes push the boundaries with my sarcasm, but even I know when to back off. If I can do it, so can anyone :P We've not had a closed thread for a while, let's try and keep it that way :)

 

 

 

This post has been approved by my mum ;)

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I too agree that everyone has an opinion. To be attacked for that opinion is just plain wrong. I believe this thread was intended as a debate. It would be nice if it continued as just that: a debate. Personal attacks have no place at PC Pistop. -kd5-

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Moon, you keep talking about the Israelis wanting the conflict to end and wanting out of the occupied territories. My question is, why did they elect a hard line leader who wants to escalate the conflict? The two things don't necessarily sit together comfortably.

I guess the choice of 'leaders' in Israel is much the same as in the U.S., the U.K. and Oz. Beans or soup. Our systems of representative democracy have decayed to the point wherein the party with the biggest financial clout get to 'rule'. Once they're in power it's payback time for the businesses which stumped up the campaign money. In Sharon's case it might be the 'West Bank Real Estate Company' ( fictional)

 

There's also another flaw in the voting system, the fact that , once elected, the 'leader' can abandon his pre-election promises and there's nothing we can do about it, except stomp and holler, until the next election. Blair is a case in point. I have no idea what Sharon promised the electorate but I can guess that he didn't tell them that his brand of leadership would bring world condemnation, a new Palestinian uprising and the deaths of thousands of innocents. With luck, Sharon is wheezing his last black political breath.

 

Note; With regard to having the thread closed, it is doing so much to make hitherto unaware members more familiar with the truth of the Israel/Palestine conflict that it would be in the interests of the pro-ethnic cleansing lobby to have it closed. A far better solution , imo, would be to bar offensive posters from the thread if they persist. It seems unfair that genuinely interested members should be deprived of information due to the actions of those who would benefit from the thread's closure. ( If I may make so bold )

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( If I may make so bold )

Be as bold as ya like,,I'll do what I can to keep it open,,but I won't edit any posts because they don't conform to what others think is right for the middle east.

 

All I'm asking is for ya'll to quit jabbing each other with pointy sticks.

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If all the Jews in Israel left tommorrow and went to live somewhere else,  I'm pretty sure that 90% of the so-called Islamic Terrorism would stop.

 

History has proven otherwise, the reason that the Palestinian people are in Israel is that they were kicked out of other Arab nations for violent actions such as terrorism. If the Jews were to leave, the violence would be shifted to another target nation, likely Saudi Arabia. But why should the Jews be the ones to leave, it is OUR homeland, if it is necessary fo any group to leave, it WILL be the Palestinians.

 

 

 

Of course my statements on Arabs and Jews were generalizations, I have already stated this several times, I went on the assumption that people had 'common sense' and would realize that I didn't mean "every last Arab, wants to kill every last Jew."

Ok. Now I'm confused! (Doesn't take much!)

 

I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge of the history of this conflict ain't exactly what it could be, but wasn't modern Israel created after the war because the Jews didn't have a homeland? Weren't the arabs already there? Also aren't many parts of Israel deemed as holy land for muslims?

 

Your assertion that:

it is OUR homeland, if it is necessary fo any group to leave, it WILL be the Palestinians.

I find particularly disturbing. The cleansing of the homeland (fatherland?) and the (forced?) relocation of the Palestinians? This sounds terribly familar to other events in the history of the Jews. For a peoploe to have endured such horrors, surely the last thing they would want to do is inflict them on others.

 

I am probably misinterpreting and I apologise if this is the case. I am certainly exagerrating to make a point.

 

But the point is, that both sides have claims on this land and both sides will say with equal conviction and fervour that it is theirs by rights.

 

hftmrock - IF they want ALL Israelis/Jews dead, the question is why? If the answer is because of the Israeli 'occupation' of Palestinian holy land, then if the Jews left, you remove the 'why'. Obviously this is purely hypothetical.

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Sharon is a Jew, people find excuses to oppose us no matter what we do or say.

 

 

 

 

Moon, you really must find a new term other than "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide," it's just isn't accurate to say this. Some of Sharon's actions may be less than noble, but that doesn't translate into actions on par with Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, or Milosevic.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=e...nic%20cleansing

 

Israel is not deporting or forcing emmigration.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=genocide

 

Israel is not carrying out any form of systematic anything. They are starring down the blade of an Arab Simitar that wants to see the Hebrew people past from existance.

 

Anyone who describes Israel's actions as "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide" is not only living in ignorance, but is a Anti-Semite.

 

 

For those of you who cannot fathom the situation, imagine this...

 

You live in a neighborhood of 200 houses. The adjacent 12 houses decide that they hate you and your family for no logical reason, they want to kick you out of your home despite the fact that you were the first to settle there and build a home. You have never offended your neighbors, endangered them, or attacked them in their houses. Immediately you go in the defencive, and luckly there are a few other houses who's residents are insanely wealthy, these noble houses decide to supply your family with guns, security systems, dogs, motions sensors, fences and anything else that may aid in your family's survival. One day the house next door starts committing acts of gross violence, vandalism, rape, racism, and every other unthinkable ace for a neighbor to commit to you and yours. They kill your son, they rape your wife, theymaim and cripple your daughter. In self-defense you beat up the attacking neighbors placing several in the hospital. Now the rest of the 186 houses jump on you demmanding that you lay down your methods of home security and move out or else you will be lynched.

 

Try to imagine living in this situation but much worse for 5000 years. What would you do? How would you react? Would your reactions be just, even though some of the non offending neighbors were retaliated against out of fear.?

 

When faced with their own demise, any animal will do everything in it's power to survive.

Edited by Z10N
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Jammin, john 44 supplied this link to clarify that the official Palestinian leadership accepts Israel's right to exist .

More than 1,000 Palestinians participated in the meeting, including more than 450 from the PLO's Palestine National Council (PNC). They stood and voted by a show of hands to reaffirm the nullification of clauses in the PLO charter calling for Israel's destruction. Only a few dozen of the members remained seated during the vote.

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Peace/revoke.html

 

It's only by relying on proven truths that third parties can engage in any meaningful debate on the issue. Claims that Palestinians want Israel destroyed are false. They want their homeland free of invaders, as you would, and the United Nations has resolved that Israel should return to her pre-1967 borders. Only the illegal settlers and the hard Right-wing of Israeli politics ( and their overseas supporters) prevents it.

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If all the Jews in Israel left tommorrow and went to live somewhere else,  I'm pretty sure that 90% of the so-called Islamic Terrorism would stop.

 

History has proven otherwise, the reason that the Palestinian people are in Israel is that they were kicked out of other Arab nations for violent actions such as terrorism. If the Jews were to leave, the violence would be shifted to another target nation, likely Saudi Arabia. But why should the Jews be the ones to leave, it is OUR homeland, if it is necessary fo any group to leave, it WILL be the Palestinians.

 

 

 

Of course my statements on Arabs and Jews were generalizations, I have already stated this several times, I went on the assumption that people had 'common sense' and would realize that I didn't mean "every last Arab, wants to kill every last Jew."

Ok. Now I'm confused! (Doesn't take much!)

 

I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge of the history of this conflict ain't exactly what it could be, but wasn't modern Israel created after the war because the Jews didn't have a homeland? Weren't the arabs already there? Also aren't many parts of Israel deemed as holy land for muslims?

 

Your assertion that:

 

I find particularly disturbing. The cleansing of the homeland (fatherland?) and the (forced?) relocation of the Palestinians? This sounds terribly familar to other events in the history of the Jews. For a peoploe to have endured such horrors, surely the last thing they would want to do is inflict them on others.

 

I am probably misinterpreting and I apologise if this is the case. I am certainly exagerrating to make a point.

 

But the point is, that both sides have claims on this land and both sides will say with equal conviction and fervour that it is theirs by rights.

 

hftmrock - IF they want ALL Israelis/Jews dead, the question is why? If the answer is because of the Israeli 'occupation' of Palestinian holy land, then if the Jews left, you remove the 'why'. Obviously this is purely hypothetical.

Post WWII, Israel was occupied by Palestine as after a long string of bloody events occured starting with the Diaspora, which expelled Jews from their native land (this was done at the hands of Arabs). This is why to this day you can find Jews from America to China, and South Africa to the Siberian tundra. As the Holocaust (trude ethnic cleansing and genocige) died down, it was decided that the Jews needed a Nation of their own, Israel was then formed. The Palastinians "desert nomads" who were criminals of other Arab nations were committing acts of terrorism against the British, when the Jews arrived, the Arab nations had a new enemy, and immediately the Arab ethnic cleansing of the Jewish people commenced.
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Jammin, john 44 supplied this link to clarify that the official Palestinian leadership accepts Israel's right to exist .

 

 

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Peace/revoke.html

 

It's only by relying on proven truths that third parties can engage in any meaningful debate on the issue. Claims that Palestinians want Israel destroyed are false. They want their homeland free of invaders, as you would, and the United Nations has resolved that Israel should return to her pre-1967 borders. Only the illegal settlers and the hard Right-wing of Israeli politics ( and their overseas supporters) prevents it.

Palestinians by definition do not have a homeland. Palatinians do not have their own nation, they are borrowing land GIVEN IN GRACE to them by Israel, it is quite impossible to have an invader in your country, let alone homeland when you have neither.
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