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Stop Supporting Ethnic Cleansing


moon
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But negotiating peace between them has proven to be a fruitless endeavor. I don't want to see any race become extinct from another's insanity. But how does an ousider stand any chance in hell of creating a peace between two races who sole intention it is to exterminate each other? Seems the only recourse is to go in and physically prevent them from doing so. But in doing so, we place ourselves in danger of being killed. So where does it all end?

 

Seems to me that if I was a member of an intelligent race of aliens come to observe our planet in hopes of including humanity in an exclusive membership of a peaceful federation of worlds, I'd either shake my head(s) in disbelief and abandon this planet as hopeless, or I'd just exterminate the lot of these upstart earthlings, terraform the planet and make way for a peaceful race of extraterrestials.

 

What the hell's wrong with people anyway? Just put down the damned gun, embrace your neighbor, and get on with the business of peaceful co-existence. -kd5-

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But negotiating peace between them has proven to be a fruitless endeavor.  I don't want to see any race become extinct from another's insanity.  But how does an ousider stand any chance in hell of creating a peace between two races who sole intention it is to exterminate each other?  Seems the only recourse is to go in and physically prevent them from doing so.  But in doing so, we place ourselves in danger of being killed.  So where does it all end?  

 

Seems to me that if I was a member of an intelligent race of aliens come to observe our planet in hopes of including humanity in an exclusive membership of a peaceful federation of worlds, I'd either shake my head(s) in disbelief and abandon this planet as hopeless, or I'd just exterminate the lot of these upstart earthlings, terraform the planet and make way for a peaceful race of extraterrestials.  

 

What the hell's wrong with people anyway?  Just put down the damned gun, embrace your neighbor, and get on with the business of peaceful co-existence.         -kd5-

Therein lays part of the problem, Jews have no desire to exterminate Arabs, if we did we would have nuked the region long ago. Yet almost as far as history records, Arabs have hated Jews, and have sought to destroy the Hebrews.

 

If America and Britian suddenly "backed out," Israel would be attacked by the rest of the Middle East, and whilst this would eliminate nearly all Arab terrorists (yeahhhh), it would spell the horrific death of 50,000,000 Arabs (booooo), the majority of whom just want to go to the movies, drink a beer, and go to work. You think it's bloody and violent now, just imagine what would insue.

 

It was the Arabs who enslaved the Jews, it was the Arabs who kicked the Jews out of their homeland.

 

When's the last time the Jews or Israel invaded another country or started a war?

 

There's a reason it's called the "I.D.F."

Edited by Z10N
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Jews have no desire to exterminate Arabs

Come on, Z10N, you just got some props from me, but then you make a ridiculous statement like this. Maybe the average Jew wants to live in peace, but Sharon is an exterminator. Let's look at this with balanced opinions.
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Come on, Z10N, you just got some props from me, but then you make a ridiculous statement like this. Maybe the average Jew wants to live in peace, but Sharon is an exterminator. Let's look at this with balanced opinions.

That was a blanket statement, it still stands true, Israel's official policy has never been the extermination of Arabs, Arab nations hold such ideology dear. Edited by Z10N
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Palestinian's are being represented by few radicals and Israel is an entire nation

Moon, I keep hearing about this poll...it's nearly a symbol assocaited with this topic, but were all the Israeli's polled? Probally not, and who polled them a Palestinian fellow? A poll is accurate to some degree, but not everyone's opinions are reflected in a poll either.

 

Maybe 70% of the Israeli's really don't agree with the destruction of Palestinian homes, are these the 70% affected by people blowing themselves up? Trust me, if your loved ones were in danger because people were housing terrorists or equipment in their homes...you would expect those homes to be gone.

 

To contrast Hitler and Sharon.

 

Hitler: Systematically and brutally killed millions of Jews

Sharon: Some innocent Palestinians in the wrong place at the wrong time, get killed

 

Hitler: Contain Jews in very small concentration camps

Sharon: Contain Palestinians to camps outside of Israel, can still flee if they choose

 

Hitler: Killed jews because they were still successful after WWI

Sharon: Palestinians are killed because they pose a threat to innocent people of Israel

 

You should be able to defend your nation, I don't totally agree with everything Israel does; but Palestinine should stop terrorizing Israel. Let me guess though, since Israel is destroying innocent people's homes I am supposed to be sympathetic towards Palestine? LMAO.

 

Who is doing the ethnic cleansing, Israel who is defending themselves or Palestine who is initiating attacks on Israel?

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Soon as the first civillian or child puts on the explosive vest with the intent to slaughter, the concept of an "innocent victim" ceases to be relavent. Every Palastinian is a potential weapon. How is Isreal supposed to react?

Of course 70% want out of the west bank. I bet even want the entire conflict to end. I bet 100% would like to live without waiting to be blown up at any given moment.

Should they just sit on their thumbs and wish for peace, watching as their population is randomly massacred? Clean the body parts from the streets and pretend nothing is wrong?

Does a nation have a right to defend its own citizens?

Can you imagine living in a county that refused to protect itself?

Isreal puts on a uniform, announces its intentions, and protects its citizens from an unidentifiable enemy. Fortify the borders, keep all possible weapons out. Increase the borders when that doesn't work, actively eleminate potential weapons. Until the terrorizing stops, the response increases. I would do the same thing.

I have more respect for that country than I do for our own.

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Salo, Zion has already challenged the authenticity of the polls earlier in the thread. However, I became aware of the winds of change in Israel after reading the Israeli press, particularly 'Israelinsider'

Shavit's point is simple. It is the settlers' movement - not the Israeli public -- that defeated Prime Minister Sharon's Gaza withdrawal plan. Every poll of the Israeli public showed overwhelming support for getting out of Gaza. Every poll of Likud party members showed the same thing. Israelis across the spectrum want out.

http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?en...ws&enVersion=0&

 

There is no doubt across the world that Israel has gone too far, even the Israeli Justice Minister agrees with that. Today's Israelinsider headline, for example;

 

IsraelInsider

http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?en...enPage=HomePage

May 28 2004

 

Turkey plans to recall ambassador in protest of IDF actions

 

Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said his country's ambassador to Israel will soon be recalled for consultations, following sharp criticism from Ankara of Israel's military operations. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan recently labeled the IDF actions in Rafiah as "state terror." Israeli Foreign Ministry officials stressed that despite the tough criticism, Israel's relations with its strategic ally remain strong.

 

There is enough condemnation of Sharon in the links throughout this thread to convince any reasonable person that something is seriously wrong in Israel. It is the Settler Movement which is preventing progress, those minority of Israelis who have set up home inside Palestinian territory. It is their cause, that of land-grabbing, that American money supports through the Israeli Right wing. They are essentially criminals, condemned by the U.N. Their cause is theft. Palestinians will never accept their uninvited presence, nor that of Sharon's wall.

 

If things go according to form, Sharon will resume the slaughter in Rafah in search of 'tunnels'. Some of these 'tunnels' are bomb-shelters or places where Palestinians hide their children when the Israelis come.

As well as looking in on the Israeli Press there is often useful information at the website of the Palestinian National Authority. It is a balanced site whereas the entire Arab Press is scathing of Sharon and Bush's support of him. Rafah is an example of ethnic cleansing which is being scrutinised by the world.

 

http://www.pna.gov.ps/

Palestinian National Authority

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From today's BBC;

 

Polls regularly show that 60% of Israelis back Mr Sharon's plans for withdrawal from Gaza.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_ea...ast/3752169.stm

 

...but Sharon's other scheme, to annex the West Bank as a sweetener to the Settlement Movement, will not be accepted by the Palestinians, the United Nations, not anybody else who will not profit directly from the seizure of territories. His plan is a failure, despite Bush's endorsement.

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Sharon is in his right to protect and safe guard his people.

he does not need anyone's permission to do so

and he has only used force when needed

 

why do people get out raged when he strikes back?

 

i think the Palestinians are lucky to date because Sharon has the power to end this

once and for all.

 

lets stop feeling sorry for the Palestinians after all their the one's bombing and killing

the Israel's

he should close his boarders and let them fend for their self's

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why do people get out raged when he strikes back?

Because his actions are brutal, disproportionate, criminal, condemned by the U.N. and tantamount to genocide and ethnic cleansing. Israelis themselves want it stopped. Stop giving him your tax dollars.
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I don't really 'get' the Israeli settlers in Gaza and other places.

 

Why would you want to live in a place that you know, just accross the divide, are some people who will gladly blow themselves up to kill you and your family, because you are on their land? Kind of like going up to a field with a mad bull in it and waving a red rag while sticking your tongue out and saying ner ner ner. You shouldn't be surprised if the bull charges.

 

I don't pretend to fully know the ins and outs of the history of this conflict. I've gotten more insight recently with threads like this and some excellent information and debate. I'm pretty sure that some of the extremists will never be happy until Israel doesn't exist, however, I don't think you can say that Israel withdrawing to internationally recognised borders would be a bad thing for the peace process. What I don't understand is why Israel hasn't been forced to withdraw to these borders by the international community. (Well, I do. Money and politics.)

 

Moon, you keep talking about the Israelis wanting the conflict to end and wanting out of the occupied territories. My question is, why did they elect a hard line leader who wants to escalate the conflict? The two things don't necessarily sit together comfortably.

 

You should be able to defend your nation, I don't totally agree with everything Israel does; but Palestinine should stop terrorizing Israel. Let me guess though, since Israel is destroying innocent people's homes I am supposed to be sympathetic towards Palestine? LMAO.

I agree with the first bit. Palestine should stop terrorising Israel. Or, more specifically, the palestinian extremists should stop. However, as for the second bit, yes you should be sympathetic. I suppose it comes down to the definition of 'innocent'. If the people whose homes are destroyed and whose lives are lost are truly innocent then of course you should feel sympathy. What have they done to deserve having their lives wrecked?

 

I simply cannot subscribe to the view that every Palestinian wants every Jew dead. The problem is that the more innocent people that are killed on either side brings more supporters to each extreme point of view. The Israeli's take retribution for atrocities committed against civilians. The Palestinians see the retribution in the same way - atrocities committed against civilians, and strike back. It doesn't matter who started it and it doesn't matter whether the civilians are killed by tanks or suicide bombers. What matters is trying to move forward without the tanks and bombs. This is a war that neither side can win by force of arms.

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Because his actions are brutal, disproportionate, criminal, condemned by the U.N. and tantamount to genocide and ethnic cleansing. Israelis themselves want it stopped. Stop giving him your tax dollars.

i guess your right....

blowing up kids on a school bus is not.

blowing up people at a cafe is not

 

or just blowing up people all together is not.

 

 

now you tell me whats brutal?

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i guess your right....

blowing up kids on a school bus is not.

blowing up people at a cafe is not

 

or just blowing up people all together is not.

 

 

now you tell me whats brutal?

It's all brutal.

 

However one is condemned (I don't see anyone here applauding the suicide bombers - it is abhorrant) and the other is supported politically and financially.

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Guest Hurdy

What I don't understand is why Israel hasn't been forced to withdraw to these borders by the international community.

Because the US vetoes every decision taken by the UN regarding Israel.

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That's changing Hurdy.

 

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040520/afp/0405...0064638top.html

Thursday May 20, 2:46 PM

US abstains, UN Security Council criticises Israel over Gaza

 

 

UNITED NATIONS (AFP) - The UN Security Council passed a resolution criticising Israel for killing Palestinian civilians and demolishing their houses after the United States abstained instead of vetoing the measure.

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economic sanctions might be an incentive ...?

 

No doubt about that, IMO. But I think the US is a long way from that because it could lead to such a weakened Isreal, that far too many lately "resonable" Arab countries might have a change of heart/mind.
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