Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Cougar_Pflow

Canada Choose Not To Participate

Recommended Posts

Guest Deuces Wild

A case can be made that if the French did not promise to veto all resolutions that there would have been a 100% vote (for) by the UN security council. With that support there would be the needed heat on Saddam to abide by 1441 and disarm peacefully.

 

War could possibly have been avoided if France acted responsibly. After all, they voted for 1441 in 2002.

Edited by Deuces Wild

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

War could possibly have been avoided if France acted responsibly.

Seems so. They misjudged the will to remove Saddam and now they're regretting what they've done. They expected Blair to crumble as a result of their veto and , full marks to him, he didn't. France now looks like a minor player. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm okay with Canada's decision. The US doesn't need help waging war but it can use all the multinational help it can get in dealing with the aftermath. At this point, any kind of support we can get is good.

 

Lets also remember that this is all about diplomacy between governments, all with their own vested interests. If you start to blame the citizens for the sins of the governments then you are blaming the wrong people. I doubt the people of Iraq are happy with their current leadership, for example, and they certainly don't want Saddam to destroy the country's infrastructure in an attempt to retain power.

 

Bush seems to believe that Saddam poses an immediate threat to the US. I wish the public could see the evidence to justify the war, there must be more than we have seen. I have no doubt that once we get into Iraq we will find plenty of evidence of Saddam's illegal weaponry and immoral brutality. I'm not so sure we will see a lot of evidence of the threat to the US.

 

I don't know enough about the Blair govt to know what is driving its position. Obviously there is a lot of public and even strong cabinet objections to war. Yet he continues to drive forward with a war policy. Is it because of a frendship with the US? Does Blair figure that if the war goes well, public opinion will turn his way? Or is he content to commit political suicide for a cause he believes is just?

 

As for the French govt, I'm sure they will be heartbroken to see all their trade to Iraq disappear and have to write off the debts that Iraq owes them. French special interests were no doubt reminding their govt of the financial consequences of war. You also have to figure that if a global terror campaign is waged by Islamic radicals, the French figure that they're safe because of their UN positions and opposition to the US. Very pragmatic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Donna

So the Canadian GOVERNMENT (keyword there) has decided that we will not go to war. Fine whatever, our Prime Minister is a yahoo and most Canadians will admit that.

 

But why do some americans think that it is all canadians. Or put any other Country in the slot.

 

Just because the government has decided something it doesn't mean the people agree. Some do, some don't.

I wish some people would stop generalizing us all into one.

 

I am very very proud to be a Canadian, I hold my flag just as high as you do. Americans are not the only patriotic people in this world.

 

I sure as hell don't agree with everything the American Government does, but its your government not all the people. I dont condem you all for Bush being a bully, or put your country down.

 

When I see a whole country put down for what its government has decided, I can see why there is so much prejudice in this world.

 

 

:(:(:(:(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many countries ARE supporting this War and how many countries ARE NOT supporting this war?

Do the "ARE NOT"s outnumber the "ARE"s? Makes one wonder, IF there has to be a "right and wrong" in all of this, which are right.

 

As for disliking the "french" or disliking the "canadians" or disliking the "whoever is not licking Bushes boots"....that is rediculas.

 

This war is turning into not only a war against Iraq, but it is turning into a war of the "USA" against "anyone that doesn't agree with the US".

 

As I read in the paper, I read "A senior British cabinet minister resigned Monday to protest Prime Minister Tony Blair's decision to back military action against Iraq" Interesting.

 

I do not support the war, and yet I support it. There are reasons that I say "yes" go to war.....and there are reasons that I say "no don't go to war".....as an "ordinary" citizen I can imagine that I do not know the "small details" of certain things, but I can be pretty sure that the leaders of all countries do.

 

As for "friends stand by friends".......yes that is true, unless it is morally wrong or puts others in danger, then it goes behond a "friends stand by friends" jugdment.

 

I think it is great that Bush anounced that after they wipe out Iraq they will help rebuild it......

I guess Bin Ladin should have made the same comment that he would help rebuild the Twin Towers etc. and then all would be forgiven.......*shakes her head* Get real.

 

I personally will NOT get into an "I hate the US", or I hate the "French"

Bullsh!t..... It is NOT the citizens that have control, it is the governments. I will not allow this "war" to pit me against my friends from other countries......INCLUDING the US citizens, British citizens, Canadian citizens, French citizens etc. that I have "met" at Pitstop or in "realtime".

 

Go to hell if you think that I will let this "war" do that..........Cause it AIN'T going to happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Deuces Wild

How many countries ARE supporting this War and how many countries ARE NOT supporting this war?

Do the "ARE NOT"s outnumber the "ARE"s? Makes one wonder, IF there has to be a "right and wrong" in all of this, which are right.

 

 

Seems like a fairly large support.

 

Approximately 60 nations support our efforts.

 

Within the European community:

European countries for war: 21

European countries who are neutral: 5

European countries against war 6 (Germany, France, Greece, Luxemburg, Belgium, and Sweden)

 

 

I personally will NOT get into an "I hate the US", or I hate the "French"

Bullsh!t..... It is NOT the citizens that have control, it is the governments. I will not allow this "war" to pit me against my friends from other countries......INCLUDING the US citizens, British citizens, Canadian citizens, French citizens etc. that I have "met" at Pitstop or in "realtime".

Where did anyone say we hate the French or Canadians? If you want to discuss this, do so in a reasonable manner without exaggerations and mistruths.

 

Go to hell if you think that I will let this "war" do that..........Cause it AIN'T going to happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No need for the foul language.

Edited by Deuces Wild

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Parts of posts from this thread:

I used to consider Canada as a friend of the US. Not any more.

Am I a French bigot? You betcha.

I dislike the French

I'm sorry Deuces Wild......what part of this thread am I not understanding?

I will addmit that I am not an english scholar........so maybe I do not understand the meaning of words like, "dislike","bigot" and "Not any more"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Deuces Wild

Parts of posts from this thread:

 

"I used to consider Canada as a friend of the US. Not any more. "

 

"Am I a French bigot? You betcha. "

 

"I dislike the French"

 

I'm sorry Deuces Wild......what part of this thread am I not understanding?

I will addmit that I am not an english scholar........so maybe I do not understand the meaning of words like, "dislike","bigot" and "Not any more"

So tell me again where I or anyone stated that I (we) hate the French or Canadians.

 

What part of the word hate don't you understand.

 

BTW: Who made the statement you quoted - "I dislike the French"? It was not me.

Edited by Deuces Wild

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Support our troops? I'm not even worried about our troops over there. They are going to kick butt. Our victory will be overwhelming. This will be the most lopsided victory in American military history.

 

Diplomacy - I honestly believe that we failed here. In hind sight, we should have just gone to war 3 months ago. Then at least, 1/2 the world (maybe more), wouldn't think that we are arrogant hegemonistic imperialists. The reality is that this new Bush Doctrine is a totally new way of looking at things. The United States has never declared war without being attacked. If we want to establish such a new policy, the reality is that is requires DIPLOMACY, and it takes time. I honestly believe that the rest of the world wants to be on our side, but we pushed most of them into a no win position. France included. Let's not forget that Resolution 1441 was UNANIMOUSLY approved. Part of diplomacy is being a little flexible.

 

Imminent Danger - Here is where we failed diplomatically. The difference between the French, Chilean, German, Russian, Chinese, etc position, and the American position, was that the others wanted a few more months for the inspectors to further their work. America wanted to attack NOW. So there's a difference of around 60 days between the two positions. In order for America to get concessions, they had to prove that the danger was imminent. That in less than 60 days, severe consequences would happen to America and to the rest of the world. We failed to make that case. Still today as we go to war, the other nations still are wondering why we are rushing into this war. Why we couldn't wait until the inspectors finished their work?

 

Consequences - The reality is that we live in a world with OTHER countries. Although America is the largest economic and military force in this world, we still must co exist and respect the opinions of others. It is my sense that many of our allies do not believe that we respect their opinions anymore. I've said this a million times in business, and it is very appropriate here. It's not what we are doing, it's HOW we are doing it. I believe that the American imperialistic shift has taken our allies by surprise. Yes, we can go this war alone, and we will win resoundingly. But it is possible that we may need the help or support of Germany, China, Canadan or Russia in the future. It is easy to damn all of our former allies now, but shouldn't we take some of the responsibility for leaving them out in the cold? Although nothing is apparent, I fear for the hidden consequences.

 

Economics - Most of all, I am a capatalist. I believe that the core of America's strength is in its capatilism, which fosters the most entpreneurial nation on the planet. More good ideas that improve the human condition come out of the United States than all the other countries combined. It is this economic strength, that allows us to finance the most formidable military in the world. But I am worried about our economy. Our go-it-alone, the-rest-of-the-world-be-damned, foreign policy makes good sound bytes, but what is the economic price? Who is going to pay for all of this? Will we have to raise interest rates to attract more capital to the government? You see, the economy finances the military, not vice versa.

 

Our government says we are entering this war unilaterally to protect the safety of our citizens. But politically, physically, economically, and emotionally, I have never been more afraid. I am not old enough to remember World War II, but I suppose the feeling might have been similar to this. The difference is that in World War II, we were attacked. This time we are the attackers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Seems like a fairly large support.

 

Approximately 60 nations support our efforts.

 

Within the European community:

European countries for war: 21

European countries who are neutral: 5

European countries against war 6 (Germany, France, Greece, Luxemburg, Belgium, and Sweden)

 

 

 

I doubt there is only 6 europeen against and 21 in favor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Deuces Wild

 

 

Seems like a fairly large support.

 

Approximately 60 nations support our efforts.

 

Within the European community:

European countries for war: 21

European countries who are neutral: 5

European countries against war 6 (Germany, France, Greece, Luxemburg, Belgium, and Sweden)

 

 

 

I doubt there is only 6 europeen against and 21 in favor
Well, then offer proof to your belief. I can back mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Tony Blair feels he should follow thru on what he said he would do. He along with the other UN members signed up for the 1441 resolution, so he feels bound to that, and quite rightly so (unlike France and Germany etc etc.)

 

They pulled out after originally agreeing with the 1441 resolution, so its that whats getting peoples backs up. Ok its getting my back up as i cant speak for anyone else obviously, but it still shows France and Germany plus the other few countries who dont agree with war now, in a very different light from now onwards.

 

Im proud to have Tony Blair as our countries leader, as he stands up for what he believes in, and see's things through whatever the consequences may be for him afterwards. Over here he is literally putting his job on the line with this war.......but im fully behind him as well as the US and the others who are standing side by side right now ready for war.

 

God bless all who fight for our childrens future.

 

Keith

Edited by doofus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chengrob.

I believe that the American imperialistic shift has taken our allies by surprise.

No truer word spoken. Chirac must have fallen face-forward into his croissants. :mrgreen:

I've been frustrated over the years by the UN's inaction and dawdling over situations which have cost many thousands of good people their lives. If a new UN rises from this, one that can turn on a sixpence and deliver a winning clout, it will have been worth it. Even now, as we speak, France is saying that it will lend a hand if Saddam uses any banned weapons (which of course he doesn't have) The Americans have taken the initiative, probably under Powell's guidance, and IF we are proven right over the weapons issue, will have won the respect of many, many nations. Alternatively, if we're wrong, Bush and Blair might as well start writing their memoires.

 

EDIT : Cougar, I remember that declaration. It's from late January. Ther's a lot more support today.

Edited by moon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Waffel

THE real bond between the United States and Europe is the values we share: democracy, individual freedom, human rights and the Rule of Law.

LOL, Berlusconi actually signed this! :mrgreen:

The guy changed several anti-fraud laws in his country, so that he could not be prosecuted for comitting crimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Waffel

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia, Macedonia, and Albania

That's an... interesting list... :mrgreen:

Europe's poorest and finest.

They cannot possibly say no to the States, as they are willing to do just about anything for economic/ financial support from anywhere.

 

Bulgaria, suppressing the Roma gypsies (compare them with the Kurds).

Albania, probably the most corrupt country on the continent.

Not to mention the late crime wave in Western Europe, coming from those countries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Deuces Wild

That's an... interesting list...  :mrgreen:

Europe's poorest and finest.

They cannot possibly say no to the States, as they are willing to do just about anything for economic/ financial support from anywhere.

 

Bulgaria, suppressing the Roma gypsies (compare them with the Kurds).

Albania, probably the most corrupt country on the continent.

Not to mention the late crime wave in Western Europe, coming from those countries.

 

Ahh...so now there are qualifiers for nations to be considered supporters of the US in this war?

 

Sort of like people complaining now that we waited too long when a few months ago they were complaining we are not giving it enough time.

 

Sometimes you just can't win.

Edited by Deuces Wild

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Waffel

Ahh...so now there are qualifiers for nations to be considered supported of the US in this war?

Qualifiers? LOL

These countries can be influenced by anything that "might possibly" lead to money...

They are "eagering" to join the EU, just hoping for the cash involved in the process.

 

@Cougar_Pflow: Italia is in favor...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Deuces Wild

So glad to know you have personally talked with the leaders of each of these countries so as to gain the understanding that you did. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think 60 is an exagerated number but I will concede that is a possible number.

 

However I don't see how anyone could consider 60 countries "large" support when the world has 193 countries.

 

60 is less then 1/3 or about 27% of the worlds nations. ummmm less then 1/3 wasn't a majority or considered allot last time I did a little math. :mrwinky:

 

http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa091399.htm

 

On the issue of vetoing resolutions, the Untied States holds the record largest number of veto's in the UN. :help:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...