Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
ikebut

Weapons Of Mass Destruction

Recommended Posts

I do agree that there should never be another 9-11

Yes, I agree too...

We should check and double check (fingerprint) or whatever

everyone coming into the United States.

 

If they cry and moan about being checked out, send them back to

wherever they came from.

I don't belive someone liveing in America or an American citizen

would want to destroy this country...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe your right Ike errr I mean't correct. I am sure that little bomb thing in Oklahoma was just a mistake. I could he have known that phosphate and diesel Oil can explode when given an ignition source and a timing mechanism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes,  I agree too...

We should check and double check (fingerprint) or whatever

everyone coming into the United States.

 

If they cry and moan about being checked out, send them back to

wherever they came from.

I don't belive someone liveing in America or an American citizen

would want to destroy this country...

I would also like every American citizen comming to the UK to have to pass a few checks....including a check for a criminal record. We recently had one of your criminals, whom your police force allow to slip out of your country, over here shooting and killing a police officer and wounding his partner.

 

I say fair is fair....you do your checks on those comming to your country but be prepared to be checked when comming to ours. The only thing wrong with that is that it's election time in the States and B'liar won't want Bush to have too much to deal with.

Edited by intratech2000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:mrsgreen: Seems some folk have left the kitchen - maybe the heat got too much for them?? :woot:

 

I don't know about the overall reaction and long term legality of America's fingerprinting of everyone entering the country, perhaps that is just the price we have to pay if we want to visit. One thing I do support Tintratech on though, is that like for like should apply, all over the world. Standards of security need to be at the highest level and only the politicians can put that in place. How much of their budgets are they willing to use on it - or will taxes just be hiked to cover?

 

Then of course there is the problem of diplomatic immunity. There should be no such thing! If joe soap in the public cannot be trusted then why should those rogues who call themselves politicians be?

 

Time and time again we make a rod for our own backs - then we let things slide a bit here or we have people accepting bribes and so on - maybe we should start a thread on how best to ensure the intentions of visitors to other countries? Heck, maybe we should all just stay at home and watch programmes about life in another country.

 

Oh by the way Deuces, and I'll leave you to find the raw data on this matter - I already know it! The rape rooms you mentioned earlier in the thread - do you know how many people were raped in America last year, in a so called civilised society that will not tolerate it? I'll bet ya ten pounds to ten bucks that the figure was far lower for Iraq than it was for the USA - even with their rape rooms. Do not go where you are on unsure ground in this instance :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beau,,Beau,,Beau,,your on one my good man. that is a big big problem worldwide. :) v

 

 

 

 

Then of course there is the problem of diplomatic immunity. There should be no such thing! If joe soap in the public cannot be trusted then why should those rogues who call themselves politicians be?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:mrgreen: Glad you agree Volt.........and when I'm at it, those damned diplomatic pouches need to be scrutinised a lot more....like, how in hell can a packing case be considered a pouch? oh boy! now I'm losing it :mrgreen: Need to take some time out and B) down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would also like every American citizen comming to the UK to have to pass a few checks....including a check for a criminal record. We recently had one of your criminals, whom your police force allow to slip out of your country, over here shooting and killing a police officer and wounding his partner.

 

 

and I want Howard Dean to start on fire. Now. :)

 

Let me get this straight, the UK, who threw a temper tantrum a week ago about having to put an armed guard or two on some flights into my country, now they want to :filtered: and moan about having to have a picture taken and a fingerprint?

 

Okay, one more time, stay with me.....

 

They flew jetliners into our buildings, we no longer screw around with planes.

 

They forced men and women to jump from the 80th floor, think about that for a second, jumping.... that was the better choice.

 

We should have shot the remaining planes out of the sky that day, and in the future that ought to be our policy, even if its a UK jetliner, even if its an American jet, NO MATTER WHAT. Shoot it down.

 

So if Britian wants me to inconvience myself for about 15 minutes so they can see who I am, and make a record of it, well, fine. Not a problem.

 

So what is the big deal with doing it for us?

 

Angela

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, we can make whatever rules we want for people coming into our country. That's what soveriegnty is all about. Of course, we should be careful about making rules that we wouldn't want to be imposed on our citizens visiting other countries. I have a feeling this stuff kind of works itself out though, if people want to get into the country that badly they'll either submit to the rules or they will try to sneak into the country and be in even more trouble if they are caught.

 

And don't get me started about diplomatic immunity, I have spent most of my adult life around the DC area. When I see a car with diplomat plates I steer clear because they can do about anything without worrying about consequences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am all for stepping up security checks, personal ID cards (not used in the UK yet) and any other form of safety feature, however inconvenient it can be at times. I would like to see CCTV cameras on every street corner too and micro chips implanted at birth into every citizen of the world so that we can be tracked 24/7. I have nothing to hide and have no undue concerns re: invasion of privacy etc. What does concern me is that the schoolyard bully is on the rampage and nobody has the power to haul him back into line when his hormones heat up. When one nation is so large and powerful that they can strut around the world acting virtually uni-laterally, as and when they see fit, is a worry though. When one nation is so large and powerful that they can ignore worldwide calls for support on issues like pollution and global warming is a worry though. When such a nation makes declarations along the lines of "you're either with us or against us" is terrifying.

 

Terrorists are a threat to our safety and should not be tolerated, but terrorists are not the biggest threat to our safety in my view.

 

Another point I'd like to clarify is that if I oppose the invasion of Iraq, I am not supporting Al Qaeda! Such a suggestion is ridiculous and beneath contempt. I do not believe Iraq had any more connection with Osama than the coalition countries did. I believe Iraqs neighbours had a lot more involvment, but that fact was overlooked by the leader of the coalition because of the financial dealings of his family and friends with the true supporters of terrorism. To be against the invasion of Iraq is not the same as being in support of terrorism!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Hurdy

Going off-thread here but :-

 

I am all for stepping up security checks, personal ID cards (not used in the UK yet) and any other form of safety feature, however inconvenient it can be at times. I would like to see CCTV cameras on every street corner too and micro chips implanted at birth into every citizen of the world so that we can be tracked 24/7.

I know the world has changed but the thought of giving up all personal rights and privacy is abhorant to me.

 

The notion that the government would have that much control seems nightmarish in the extreme.

 

When I was a lad such societies i.e. East Germany were looked on with disdain and fear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure that it's only visitors to the US that require a visa that will have their fingerprints taken. (I stand to be corrected.)

 

The problem is that we are unable (or unwilling?) to differentiate between a small group of murdering fanatics and the country they come from or the race/religion they belong to.

 

In the past IRA terrorists have murdered plenty of British people. Does this mean that all Irish people were murdering terrorists? No.

 

Arab terrorists flew planes into American buildings killing thousands of people. Does this mean that all Arabs are murdering terrorists? No.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good points Jammin. It's a sad indictment that we need to spell such things out for people though :(

 

Now as for the original post....

 

Paragraph 1.

 

I don't believe the time will come when we find actual WMD's in Iraq. If we do, I will be amongst the 1st to congratulate the USA led Coalition and will eat all the 'crow' presented to me. Intelligence from an exiled member of the Syrian opposition pretty much sums up how desperate some are to believe anything that might support their cause. Dubious intel is what got us into this mess in the 1st place.

 

Paragraph 2.

 

Prove they exist and I'm sure there will be virtually total support for any action taken to eliminate them.

 

Paragraph 3.

 

Can't speak for all Europeans. My view is that it's proving very unhealthy for the world to have just one superpower. We need to have some balance. Not sure if Europe is an ideal counter, but what other choice is there?

 

Paragraph 4.

 

Not in a position to comment on the Democrats motives. However, I am not so naive as to think that any government wouldn't suffer the loss of 3000 lives if the end reward was big enough.

 

Paragraph 5.

 

If the intelligence is more 'intelligent' than that which took us into Iraq, then I agree that the reaction should be swift and certain. Not too sure about devestating though.

 

Paragraph 6.

 

Yes, all Americans should stand up for America. Do not confuse 'standing up for America' as meaning you should not question your governments motives and actions though. Do not believe that it means you have to go along with the currents leaders idiotic view that "you are either with him or against him". becoming part of a mindless herd will not make your great country any safer. It will instead put the whole world at greater risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sir t

To be against the invasion of Iraq is not the same as being in support of terrorism!

Jammin

Arab terrorists flew planes into American buildings killing thousands of people. Does this mean that all Arabs are murdering terrorists? No.

repeat above quotes every ten posts

 

Plus a couple of others ....No such thing as "Friendly fire ", its all deadly

 

If you on the receiving end ,sitting at home with your family, it doesn't matter whether it was a suicide bomb or "collaterally" dropped from a plane ...Itll have the same results of horror , loss and pain ......

Edited by Tankus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boy...now we can sleep at night. The US has asked France to

track down a suspected terrorist that forced a bunch of

US-bound flights to be cancelled recently.

 

Don't hold you're breath on this one. What a Joke

 

Did you get you're laugh...bad62bug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you find that the French have considerable experience in dealing with terrorists as have most of the countries in "Old europe "......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

France and the War on Terrorism by Shaun Gregory

France has had a long history of struggle with various forms of terrorism over the past decade and has achieved particular success against Algerian Islamic terrorist groups – the GIA and GSPC – with close links to Al-Qaeda. This article reviews France’s experience of terrorism since the end of the Second World War and details the evolving state responses to these challenges and the sophisticated anti-terrorist apparatus that now serves the French state. It then considers the role of France in the post-11 September ‘war on terrorism’ and argues that France remains in the front-line of the struggle against Al-Qaeda and that the French experience has much to contribute to the international war against Islamic terrorism.

 

http://www.frankcass.com/jnls/tpv_15-1.htm

 

It is here in New York, the victim of a savage assault, a city of liberty and hope to which I am especially attached, home to the United Nations, that I want to make clear from the outset France's implacable determination. One does not justify terrorism. One does not compromise with terrorism. One fights it.

 

No pretext can legitimize terrorist attacks. The national, political, religious or social demands terrorists put forward to justify their crimes are null and void, since nothing can ever warrant the targeting of civilian populations or cowardly attacks on innocent people. This fundamental principle lies at the heart of our conception of human dignity.

 

*

 

It will take time to overcome terrorism, and relentless efforts on the part of the entire international community. We must close ranks against the forces of hatred arrayed across the world and bound together by underground networks that exploit modern technologies, finding shelter in countries that are either complicit or powerless, in alliance with drug traffickers and mafia gangs.

 

Terrorists imagine the democracies to be craven and spineless. To be sure, democracies are slow to anger. They prefer peace to war, and discussion before action. But history shows that, when attacked in what they hold most dear, their liberty and their security, they are combative and effective in the extreme, for a sovereign people always fights better than a subject people.

 

The reaction of the world in the wake of the September 11 attacks is a cause for confidence. The international community forged a coalition within the framework of the United Nations. This coalition is based on treaties. This was not a case of arbitrary decisions against blind violence: it was the rule of law against crime. It is by upholding our values, laws, and public freedoms that we shall vanquish terrorism. Otherwise, we shall lose our soul.

 

Progressively, through the alliance of our military resources engaged in Afghanistan, of our intelligence services, our police forces and judiciaries, we are building a worldwide anti-terrorist system. We are advancing on four fronts: the effectiveness of police and judicial cooperation ; the fight against terrorist financing ; the provision of technical assistance to all states that express the need for it ; the fight against proliferation.

 

*

 

But, just as in our own countries fighting crime entails more than just police work, so we need to analyze terrorism more deeply. For it is a reflection of the evils of our time. It is a feverish expression of suffering, frustration or injustice. When democracy is absent, it usurps the banner of freedom. When social issues become acute, terrorism assumes the mask of justice and solidarity. When a country is under foreign occupation, it unjustly captures the struggle for freedom for its own ends. When a community feels ill-treated, terrorism claims to act in its name.

 

So we need to take a cold, unflinching look at the world today.

 

Terrorism takes as its pretext the frustrations born of unresolved conflicts. I am thinking especially of the Middle East conflict, which has been the source of suffering, anger and incomprehension among all of the peoples in the region for fifty years now. Only a just and lasting peace can put an end to it.

 

But we need to pay very close attention to this part of the world for other reasons as well. Once the cradle of great cultures and glorious civilizations, today it is uncertain of its pace and role. Domestic and international crises are having a profoundly unsettling impact on its populations, who often take a nostalgic view of the past, are discontented with their lot and fearful for the future.

 

Our destinies are intertwined. We must stand by these peoples. We must help them overcome the challenges facing them, help them hold out fresh prospects to their young people in the shape of prospects of development and democracy, modernity, openness to the outside world, and dialogue.

 

Our world is characterized by the growing gap between rich and poor, by the destabilization of traditional societies, by the difficulties encountered by the developing countries' middle classes in achieving a minimum of stability. A key goal in the fight for economic development is to share our prosperity in order to give each and everyone a fair chance and a share in progress, and thus to diminish feelings of injustice and exclusion.

 

In the Southern hemisphere, globalization is frequently viewed as the modern expression of the West's hold on the world, as a threat to identities and as a process imposing uniformity. Paradoxically, its promise of freedom is often perceived as an assault on the world's cultures. That is why I believe it is absolutely essential that inter-cultural dialogue should enjoy a high priority in international affairs. While respecting the universal values that unite us, we need to invent a policy of diversity that takes due account of people's pride, their pride in their identity, in their origins, their cultures, and in their contribution to the wealth of humanity and the world.

 

*

 

Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

New York has arisen once more. That is a message of hope for us all. We owe it to New York, to the victims of September 11, as to all victims of terrorism, to act resolutely against this scourge. And in tribute to their tragic fate, I propose that September 11 be henceforward named "World Anti-Terrorism Day."

 

Thank you.

Hey Ike, Any guesses on who made the above speech?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We should have shot the remaining planes out of the sky that day, and in the future that ought to be our policy, even if its a UK jetliner, even if its an American jet, NO MATTER WHAT. Shoot it down.

 

I honestly think that we would have shot down all the other planes out of the sky if we had known which ones to shoot. It all happened so fast, and the only other alternative would have been to indiscriminately start shooting down planes which would have made a bad problem worse.

 

The question in my mind is what actions do the 9/11 attacks justify, and which ones do they not. Perhaps the most burning question is whether 9/11 justifies the American invasion and occupation of Iraq. Others are more obvious. The American invasion of Afghanistan. Yes. Fingerprinting. Yes. It's a PITA but it is justifiable. Detaining British citizens in Cuba. Not sure but probably not. The Patriot Act. NO.NO.NO. Longer lines at airports. Yes. Randomly shotting planes out of the sky. No.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rob, I agree with all that you said in your post with the exception of differentiating between the Brit prisoners and those of other nationalities. If they deserve to be prisoners, then so be it. If it is the right way to treat a prisoner, then so be it. Problem as I see it is that a) we don't know if they deserve prisoners and B) we definitely know that it is not the way anyone should be treated in a so called 'civilised' world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Ike, Any guesses on who made the above speech?

Ike I'll give you a hint his initials are. JC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Ike, Any guesses on who made the above speech?

No ! But it sounds good on paper. We need to take action, not notes....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...