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Windsurf48

Finally got Overdrive to finish

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I finally got the Overdrive test to finish almost successfully, but the scores are disappointing, with everything in the top 4 percent except Internet, which didn't run: http://www.pcpitstop.com/betapit/sec.asp?conid=26073238

 

ASUS Zenith II Extreme

AMD Threadripper 3960x

Corsair H150i

4 x 8 GB Corsair Dominator 4266 at 3200 MHz

Patriot Viper VP4100 1T PCIe4 M.2 drive

 

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Holy moly, that is a beastly machine! Whatcha gonna do with all those glorious cores?

 

Tx 🤠

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Mostly run benchmarks and experiment.  I'm still going through a learning experience with some of its quirks.  The biggest issue is keeping it cool because the H150i with six push-pull ML120 fans isn't enough to handle 48 Prime95 workers at default settings, so overclocking is out the question for now.   Eventually, I want to experiment with  PCIe4 M.2 RAID, which should in interesting since the bandwidth limits are gone.

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By the way, I got messages about IE scripting not being enabled after the first test run.  I went through the IE options and it was enabled already, but then got another message about cookies or something similar.  I went through the IE options and the second item was also already enabled.  The third time, the test finished.  I don't know if the process of going through the IE options somehow reset something that let the test finish, or whether it just was a coincidence that the test finished successfully on the third attempt.  I may be able to find out after I figure out how to get the Corsair memory stable at higher speeds and I retest.

 

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That is quite the benchmark queen! I bet it's a treat to use. One thing I'd recommend if the ram is on the mobo qvl is to set it to 3600Mhz, it puts the Infinity Fabic at its max clock speed and will enable optimal bandwidth for RAM and IF.  ;)

 

One other thing of note, the hotplate on that AiO likely is not large enough to fully cover the iihs of that massive cpu package. If it doesn't explicitly state designed for TRX40 or even TR4 socket, it's not gonna be up to the task. https://www.cgdirector.com/best-cpu-coolers-ryzen-threadripper/ as a reference. Notice how large the contact plate is on the Noctua cooler compared to the one on your AiO.

 

 

Tx 🤠

 

 

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I've tried the RAM at 3600 MHz, but the system is not stable.  I probably need to increase the power, which defaults to 1.2 but goes up as high as 1.45 for 4266 MHz.  That's one of the things I haven't gotten around to trying yet.

 

Thanks for the link to CPU coolers.  I already had the H150i and some of the 3960x reviews were done using the same cooler, but I assumed that some of the heat issues were related to the size of the pump's contact area and was planning on looking for one designed for Threadrippers.

 

By the way, I completed another run today on my other hard drive's Windows 10 system and it reported that my 85708 score was in the top 20%, with each of the individual scores in the top 4% except for Internet, which had "soon!" instead of a score. My last previous score was 45583 from 2017, and that was in the top 5% which was expected because it would have been my Core i7-6700k or 8700k.  What kind of systems are getting the top scores these days? http://www.pcpitstop.com/betapit/sec.asp?conid=26073290&report=Summary

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I checked the link for Threadripper coolers.  The highest-rated one is the Thermaltake Water 3.0, but it has the same size pump and contact surface as the H150i.  The be quiet! Dark Rock Pro TR4 is the highest rated air cooler and has a base which looks as though it would cover the whole CPU, but I don't know if the better coverage with air cooling would be an improvement over the H150i.  I'm certainly going to watch for an AIO designed for Threadrippers, but the article says that the one currently available is too unreliable to be useful.

 

I'll also see if I can find any Threadripper 3960x and 3970x stats comparing coolers which include the Corsair H150i and the Dark Rock Pro, but I think I remember seeing some where the liquid cooling trumped the better base.

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If your system is unstable at the XMP 3600Mhz, double check that the ram is on the QVL for the mobo. If it's not, I'm 99.9% sure this is the cause based off my experience with Ryzen starting with Gen1. 

 

As for your question about what systems are being tested that are raising the bar so high, your guess is as good as mine. I'll ask the developers and see if they have any clues. I've built several TR4 systems and used the Noctua TR4 spec'd cooler with fabulous results. It's right there with the best AiO setups. I've learned though that if you're not running full bore for extended an duration of time, you're better off w/a known effective air cooler like the Noctua.

 

I used to be a firm believer in the AiO coolers, but the results of testing just doesn't support their superiority or cost. It's just simpler to use an air cooler and if you need the extra cooling capacity, build a custom water loop.

 

Tx 🤠 

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I checked the QVL before ordering the RAM.  That's not the problem.  TRX40 doesn't have XMP, and the equivalent DOCP only has an option for 4266,.  The problem is that selecting DOCP automatically locks the cores at 4.3 Ghz, which is too much for the H150i.  It took me a couple of weeks to deal with driver issues in Windows 10 x64 and I reseated the pump with better thermal paste last weekend, so I'm just reaching a point where I'm ready to experiment with RAM settings.  

 

I need to check to see if either the Dark Rock or Noctua's TRX40 cooler will clear the RAM.  I've had good results with Noctua heatsinks in the past; the only downside is Noctua's preference for really ugly fan colors.  I'm not sure I want to overclock badly enough to set up a custom water loop.

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You've more than done your homework is sounds, but there is good news on the Noctua front, they started making all black stuff. https://noctua.at/en/noctua-introduces-chromax-black-cpu-coolers

 

Here's one build I did with the Noctua cooler, granted I use Corsair LPX ram, the cooler i specifically designed to not obstruct dimm slots. JHV1lUD_zI79EAETx17ldDgooqs-mjRplztwxAEH

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I've seen the black Noctua coolers.  Unfortunately, the RAM is too high for either the Noctua or be quiet! coolers.  I'll just run the PC without overclocking the CPU and play around with other variables until someone other than Enermax comes out with an AiO pump designed for Threadrippers.

 

My i7-8700k and Maximus X Apex was using RAM designed to fit under heatsinks. I haven't used an AiO since my first one leaked and fried my motherboard three or four years ago.

 

Edited by Windsurf48

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I forgot the mention that I noticed something about the percents on the Ranking tab.  The five individual scores showed 4% each, with no score or percent for Internet bandwidth, and the total ranking showed 20%.  Is there any possibility that Overdrive is adding the individual percents to get the overall percent instead of calculating it separately?  The 4% calculations are suspect, too, because it seems unlikely that the CPU, RAM, hard drive, and video scores would all fall in exactly the same percent range.

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I've no clue how that number is derived. I did ask the developers and they'd said the scores were off for a bit due to a table not populating(I think I remember that correctly, but don't quote me), it's since been fixed.

 

 

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I'm just curious about what kind of rigs are getting the top scores.  If they are using LN cooling or are running two Xeons and three video cards, I don't worry about it, but if they are comparable to mine, then it's interesting to try to figure out what's holding mine back.

 

I was trying to figure why the 3960x and TRX40 chipset were getting 10% lower scores than my Core i7-8700k and Z370 in Passmark Performance Test with both running at default settings, and found out that temporarily disabling the Meltdown and Spectre patches resulted in scores 25 percent higher.  It didn't make a difference in Overdrive, however.

 

Edited by Windsurf48

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The memory has been running at 3600 18-19-19-39 1.35 since noon with no problems, including completing Windows Memory Diagnostics.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to complete Overdrive to see what difference it makes, but the AIDA64 memory scores are encouraging.

 

ASUS's RealBench has similar problems, displaying a message about being unable to parse system specs which blocks uploads after completing the tests.  This seems to have been going on for several years with no resolution.  It's frustrating because the score looks good compared to the online database, but that might be partly because other high scores wouldn't upload.

 

At least one of SiSoft Sandra's full system benchmark tests chokes on TRX40 systems, but hopefully this is a recent problem which will be fixed soon.

Edited by Windsurf48

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I replaced the Corsair Hydro H150i with a Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3.  Idle temperatures are slightly lower, but initial testing indicates that temperatures under load are higher.  However, I'm waiting for an RMA for the memory certified for the Zenith II Extreme and using a pair of older memory sticks until it arrives, so there's no point in doing much at this time.  The NH-U14S does fit easily on the TRX4 motherboard.  The fans have to be raised slightly for taller memory, but with four sticks, the front fan is clear of the memory anyway.

 

AIDA64 shows the fans speeding up under load as expected, so if the load temperatures are still high when I can resume testing, I'll take the heat sink off to verify that the thermal paste was applied correctly and, possibly, try different thermal paste.

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The PC wasn't stable booting with the Corsair DDR4-4266 memory running at anything over 3200 MHz.  Corsair RMAed the memory, which took almost three weeks, and the replacement memory has the same issues struggling to boot at any timings and voltages with the clock over 3200 MHz, including the DOCP settings.  Now Corsair says that anything over 2800 MHz is overclocked and they don't guarantee that it will work at higher speeds.  3200 MHz is actually the last memory speed not considered overclocked on the Zenith II Extreme, but I would not have paid four times as much for DDR4-4266 as I would have for DDR4-3200 if I'd known that it was only guaranteed to work properly up to 3200 MHz.  I've asked about returning the memory but am not optimistic.  I believe that I've missed Newegg's window thanks to the three-week RMA, but I see what I can find out.

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Wow! That really stinks! Everything I've read says it becomes a case of diminishing returns when you run the ram at higher clocks than the IF, except where you're able to tighten the timings up and lock the IF to 3600 and progress beyond with the ram speeds and timings. Granted, I've no personal experience doin such.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-threadripper-3000-overclocking-deep-dive-asus-rog-zenith-ii-extreme/single-page.html 

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/impact-of-memory-speeds-on-gaming-performance-in-the-amd-ryzen-3000-cpus/

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/ram-timings-what-are-they-what-do-you-do-with-them/

 

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I didn't know about the 3600 MHz threshold when I bought the RAM.  However, Corsair wouldn't guarantee its DDR4-3600 at anything over 3200 MHz, either.  I tried the RAM I have using Corsair Dominator DDR4-3600 timings and voltages, and that was unstable, too.

 

I'm assuming that there aren't very many motherboards for which anything over 3200 MHz isn't an overclock value, which would seem to give vendors a free ride to charge high amounts for memory rated above that without any responsibility if it doesn't work.

 

Overdrive, AIDA64, Passmark Performance Test, and other benchmarks do show significant increases in RAM benchmarks at 3600 MHz and 4266 MHz compared to 3200 MHz, with most highest at 3600 MHz but some benefiting from 4266 MHz.  I doubt that the difference is significant in real world processing, but since my goal was to play around with benchmarks, faster RAM, at least up to 3600 MHz, would be worth it if it actually worked.

 

ASUS bears some responsibility, too, because they provide a QVL list for RAM certified with each motherboard, which would lead one to assume that the listed RAM would work at its rated speed on that motherboard even if it used an overclock value.  Unfortunately, ASUS has gotten rid of the individual forums for each motherboard which were the most useful source of tech support from users and ASUS personnel, and its chat, phone, and email support is staffed by low-level people who are very cooperative but end up referring most issues to higher levels, which, based on my experience, may or may not actually have people responding to issues passed to them.

 

At the higher speeds, Corsair is the only company with RAM on the Zenith II Extreme QVL list.  However, at 3600 MHz and lower, there are a lot of choices, so if I can return the Corsair RAM, I could start researching a dozen different DDR4-3600 sets, falling back on DDR4-3200 if nothing looked promising.  Newegg was at least sympathetic to the fact that I wasted a month dealing with Corsair when I could have returned the RAM within the 30-day window if Corsair had told me up front that they didn't guarantee it to work.

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Man, the Asus QVL tool is not something I've used before, I'm accustomed to the pain that is a PDF and Ctrl+F to search for a model between it and a website, just to locate a kit.

 

Vendors Part No. Size RAM Speed Run Speed SS/DS Chip Brand Timing Voltage Socket Support
CORSAIR CMK32GX4M4B3600C18(Ver4.31) 4x 8GB 3600 3600 SS Samsung 18-19-19-39 1.35 1,2,4
CORSAIR CMK32GX4M4D3600C18(Ver3.31) 4x 8GB 3600 3600 SS Micron 18-22-22-42 1.35 1,2,4
G.SKILL F4-3600C19Q-32GSXW 4x 8GB 3600 3600 SS SK Hynix 19-19-19-39 1.35 1,2,4
G.SKILL F43600C16Q-32GTZRC 4x 8GB 3600 3600 SS SK Hynix 16-19-19-39 1.35 1,2,4
CORSAIR CMW32GX4M4C3600C18(Ver4.31) 4x 8GB 3600 3600 SS Samsung 18-19-19-39 1.35 1,2,4
CORSAIR CMR32GX4M4C3600C18(Ver4.31) 4x 8GB 3600 3600 SS Samsung 18-19-19-39 1.35 1,2,4
CORSAIR CMT32GX4M4K3600C16(Ver4.31) 4x 8GB 3600 3600 SS Samsung 16-18-18-36 1.35 1,2,4
CORSAIR CMW32GX4M4D3600C18(Ver3.31) 4x 8GB 3600 3600 SS - 18-22-22-42 1.35 1,2,4
G.SKILL F4-3600C16Q-32GTZNC 4x 8GB 3600 3600 SS - 16-19-19-39 1.35 1,2,4

 

These are what they list for 4x 8gb and 3600Mhz from https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-Zenith-II-Extreme/HelpDesk_QVL_Memory/

 

Is this what you used as well?

Tx 🤠

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That's what I used, but I was looking for the fastest 4 x 8 Gig kits available on Newegg, so the selection was more limited.  It will be time consuming to research the 3600 MHz kits, but I'll also write to the manufacturer first to find out if they guarantee them at their rated speed.  Even if they didn't, one 3600 GHz 4 x 8 kit I checked out cost a fifth of what the Dominator DDR4-4266 cost.  I'm not sure what you're paying for if it's only guaranteed to work as well as something costing 80 percent less.

 

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It looks like the Corsair Dominator DDR4-4266 isn't stable at non-overclocked speeds.  It had been running at 3200 MHz, which is the last non-OC value according to Zenith II Extreme specs, apparently without issues, but one of my operating systems began kicking into 'Preparing Automatic Repair' yesterday.  I restored the hard drive from a back full copy and the problem went away.  The system would boot successfully several times before reverting to 'Preparing Automatic Repair'.  I did CHKDSK, SFC, and DISM disk scans, which found no problems after the drive was restored.  Neither did Windows Defender, Malicious Software Removal, SuperAntiSpyware, or Microsoft Safety Scanner, but the problem came back.  None of the simpler recommended solutions I found had any effect until I found one suggesting that bad memory could be the cause.  I've dropped the memory down to 2133 MHz, half its rated speed, and so far everything seems stable.

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Dadgum, you're having a good run of it, huh? 

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I just ordered a new power supply.  The current one is four years old, which isn't necessarily a problem, but I've had flaky, inconsistent processing which went away with a new power supply several times.  

 

I tried restoring the 'Preparing Automatic Repair' system on a different hard drive with a different connection to the system with the same results, so it's not the hard drive.  One of the other drives intermittently disappears when the system reboots, so there are multiple issues going on.  The memory is running at 2133 MHz, but if it's really bad, it could still be the problem.  I'm going to run memory diagnostics against it when I log off, but the original memory passed the Windows diagnostics at DDR4-3600 even though the motherboard rebooted at least once getting started at that speed.

 

I'll try reinstalling Windows 10 for the system which keeps running into trouble if the power supply doesn't resolve the issues, and then contact ASUS support about the motherboard if nothing else makes a difference.  Hopefully, Newegg will complete its research into the memory issues with Corsair and decide to give me a break on returning the memory, unless a new power supply resolves the memory issues and that becomes irrelevant.

 

I noticed that several of the newer power supplies needed USB connections to the motherboard for monitoring or RGB lighting.  As it is, my case fans use one of the USB headers, and using a second one for the power supply would leave nothing for front panel USB except a single USB-C port.

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The new power supply arrived this morning and the PC is up and running using it.  However, all the same problems seem to be present.  So far, I've seen reboots running memory at anything above 3200 MHz and drives disappearing when the system restarts (but never on a cold boot).  I'm restoring the other Windows 10 system now to see if it still gets 'Preparing Automatic Repair', but I'm not optimistc.  It looks as though the next step will be to contact ASUS about a motherboard RMA.

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