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What is the difference


JustinP526
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Between i586, i686, ia64, s390, ppc and sparc?

 

Don't think I've ever asked before and google search results give so many responses that are all contradictory.

Pretty sure when I ran Linux (possibly Ubuntu) on an old 32 bit Pentium 4 machine I was told that only i386 programs would work.

 

I downloaded ZSNES from here: (the zsnes.com site links to this for the download, guess it's their host)

http://www.fosshub.com/ZSNES.html

 

There doesn't seem to be any mention of architecture, only version 1.51 (latest version). The download is zsnes151src.tar.bz2

I searched in software management and there is no SNES emulators found.

 

There is mention at ZSNES forum to not bother with source because of problems with 'make' so instead to install from rpm.

http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=134769

 

There is an rpm here for opensuse 13.2 which is i586.

http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/29731613/dir/opensuse_13.x/com/zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586.rpm.html

 

I clicked the one for ia64 listed under Search for other platforms and the search doesn't find any. Does it matter which architecture type is used? My system is opensuse 13.2 64 bit KDE, runs on AMD A4-6300 APU

It's really confusing when all search results for anything Linux point to Ubuntu... like that's the only flavor of Linux :laughing:

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Between i586, i686, ia64, s390, ppc and sparc?

they are all different cpu's, which means they are built with different instruction sets, the commands that a cpu needs built into them so they know how to do things.

 

cpu's in the same family are backwards compatible, so code written to use instruction sets for i586 cpu's will work on i686 cpu's but code written to run on instruction sets for an i686 cpu will not work on the older i586 cpu.

 

ppc and spark are completely different family types of cpu so no code written for the the x86 family of cpu's will work on them and vice versa. (that's where virtualization or emulation comes into play.)

 

all cpu's can run 32bit code (from i386) but only cpu's after i786 can run 64bit code in the x86 family type of cpu's i believe, but may be wrong on that, no idea about ppc and sparc but they are dead architectures anyway from my understanding.

 

so really any programs compiled to work with any of the x86 cpu family types (that's both intel and amd) will run on your cpu probably.

 

here's a link that explains packages types :- https://myonlineusb.wordpress.com/2011/06/08/what-is-the-difference-between-i386-i486-i586-i686-i786/

 

hope that explains what you wanted to know in an easy enough fashion to understand.

 

:b33r:

Edited by terry1966
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yes that explains very well, thanks!!

 

I also seen a posting on opensuse forum about the same thing and it gives the same info. one response there said that ppc is Power PC and those type of files are used on Macs.

it said ppc and sparc are different in the way they process info (0's and 1's), something about they do the same work but in a different language.

can't find it now... should have bookmarked the page...

 

think it also said the ia64 is only compatible with certain Intel 64 bit CPUs but never compatible with AMD64, so I will avoid that option.

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at the lowest level everything runs with 0's and 1's (voltage on or off) imagine you have 8 wires in a line, all the cpu's have the same 8 wires, x86 cpu's, ia64 cpu's, amd64 cpu's, spark cpu's. ppc, etc. etc.

 

now to make a picture appear on a screen a signal needs to be sent down 1 or more of those wires, for x86 cpu's it would be the first wire for ia64 cpu's it would be the 2nd wire, for amd 64 cpu's it will be the 1st and 3rd wires, for spark cpu's it would be the 6th wire. etc. etc.

 

now as you can see code written to send a signal down the first wire will only get the result (picture on screen) you want when run on x86 cpu's.

 

when you write code it is usually in a language much higher than the lowest level 0 and 1's and needs to be converted into those 1's and 0's and this is where compiling comes into play. compilers convert what you've written into those 0 and 1's so it is then able to run on the hardware.

 

now when you compile code it needs to be compiled for the specific cpu/hardware it is to be run on otherwise it will send signals down the wrong wires and not work.

you can compile the same higher level code into the lower level 0's and 1's to be run on all the cpu's but only by using a different compiler to first convert the code into the correct order of 0's and 1's for the cpu it is going to be used on.

 

when you virtualize or emulate anything what is happening is the code compiled for other cpu's is being read and then changed to send the correct signals down the correct wires by code already running on the cpu that is being used and therefore getting the results you want.

 

that in a very simple form is what programming is and how pc's work.

 

so in your case you have an amd64 cpu that runs 64bit os code, preferably you will always install software compiled for x86_64 or amd64, but can install and run code compiled in any of the i formats (32bit) like i586, i386 etc except ia64.

 

your system is more than capable of running code compiled for ia64 and ppc and spark BUT that code needs to be run by a special program that first virtualizes or emulates it so your amd64 cpu gets the correct signals sent to it to work.

 

:b33r:

Edited by terry1966
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when you virtualize or emulate anything what is happening is the code compiled for other cpu's is being read and then changed to send the correct signals down the correct wires by code already running on the cpu that is being used and therefore getting the results you want.

 

that in a very simple form is what programming is and how pc's work.

 

 

:b33r:

 

so then that is how video game emulators work to make those console games playable on a PC which uses a different type of CPU and GPU

definitely sheds some light on things!!

 

:b33r:

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yes, the emulation or virtualization software knows what the programs are supposed to do if they were run on the original hardware and then changes whatever it needs to and sends the correct signals to the hardware it's running on to achieve the desired/same results.

 

:b33r:

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no idea, can't say i use apper to install rpms, don't even remember if i have it installed on this machine.

 

i use yast software installer or zypper usually.

 

been a while since i've installed any rpm's so can't remember exact steps but goes something like this :-

download rpm

right click on file

mouse over open with

then click on software installer

 

or something like that. :laughing:

 

anyway here's a guide :- http://opensuse-guide.org/installpackage.php

 

:b33r:

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Hope Terry's advice worked. This is how I install rpms:

I open a terminal as root and cd to the directory I d/led the file to. I type ls to see the full filename.
Then type

rpm -ivh (filename)
to install. For example: googlechromestableblahblahblah.rpm. Works for me.

Apper? I delete it immediately any time I do a fresh re-install or OS upgrade. Advice I got from Bruce, Terry, or both of them. To each their own - but I don't like having things running in the background constantly to remind me of updates when I can do them on a regular basis manually with zypper, or yast if you prefer that.

zypper ref - refreshes your repos
zypper lu - looks for updates
zypper up - installs them

Or yast > Online Update.

KB

Edited by KurtBleach
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OH, well must have been some issue with trying to open it via Apper.

Downloaded the file in Firefox and chose for it to open with Apper software installer (only choice listed). That gave the error "cancelled by user".

 

Well this time I downloaded it and chose to save the file. Still have trouble to install.

linux:/home/justin/Documents # rpm -ivh zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586.rpm
warning: zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586.rpm: Header V3 DSA/SHA1 Signature, key ID 233ab63d: NOKEY
error: Failed dependencies:
        libSDL-1.2.so.0 is needed by zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586
        libpng12.so.0 is needed by zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586
        libpng12.so.0(PNG12_0) is needed by zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586

Thought I had those already installed as part of something else that was installed in Yast software management... extras or something.

I don't understand one bit of this. Never had this kind of trouble installing the same program in Windows. Just had to double click the installer and it installed everything needed, then was able to run program minutes later.

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Never had this kind of trouble installing the same program in Windows.

:laughing:

 

stop moaning just ask your questions and learn. :P

 

ok so it says you have missing dependencies, which are libsdl, libpng12 so now you know what you need go and find them, ;)

 

place to look is here :- https://software.opensuse.org/132/en

 

type in the package name you need in the top package search box and then in the results find and install it,

you can either just click on the package and use the 1 click install or click show other versions and then click on the package required 64bit say and save it to your pc before installing.

 

do that for each and every dependency you need then once you have them all try that command again to install your rpm.

 

some times when you do a search it may not find what your looking for so you may need to click on the spanner next to the search box on the right to change it's search criteria, for example search development or other distos for the package.

 

those 2 are there though because i checked. :mrgreen:

 

:b33r:

 

ps. i always download software/rpms to my system first before trying to install them.

 

i downloaded the zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586.rpm onto my system to see exactly how to install rpms again besides using the command line and on my system just by simply left clicking on it started the install process and of course it told me i had those 2 missing dependencies.

 

didn't bother going any further and just deleted it but to install rpms it's a simple 1 click action it seems unless of course there is some missing dependencies. :tup:

Edited by terry1966
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simply left clicking on it started the install process

Yep, did that and it does start the process. I get a security pop up for root password, enter it and then the error that says failed to install because "aborted by user".

 

I could alternately install the programs by compiling from source. Think the SNES one said not to do that as it doesn't like to compile nicely.

 

Yeah, I really shouldn't blame anything on Linux... it's just the stupid hardware that is the problem. Mainly UEFI junk that wouldn't let me install any Linux distro from CD/DVD but yet from USB flash drive it installed quick and easy. That and everything using Realtek chipsets that have very little Linux support. Wifi adapter uses Realtek rtl8192cu, needed a work around for it to keep a good functioning connection. Mobo has Realtek rtl8111 LAN, no idea how well it works (if at all) since no access to that type of connection... and Realtek alc887 8 channel audio which sounds like crap even considering it being "HD audio". Not like it sounded much better in Windows either (better than old c-media and soundmax), but it is so lifeless and muddy sound. Seems like it's over boosted at around 1kHz so way too much midrange. Highs get cut off and too quiet at around 5kHz and up. Bass is inaudible at around 100Hz and below. My subwoofer is good down to 28Hz but yet it's not playing those frequencies. Watch a music video, can see the bassist playing but can't hear it. Can see drummer playing.. can only hear the snare and rack toms.

 

Installed Pulseaudio Volume Control and Pulseaudio Equalizer, but that is no help either. Just distorts the audio and disables everytime the audio source changes.

 

Sure the volume also shows audio capability for the HDMI output, but I don't have any HDMI devices.

 

Guess people don't care about the quality of their audio anymore. Such a shame how all the damn pop, rap and hip hop crap is ruining real music... and all the worthless "Beats" garbage forces dumb people to believe low quality is how their music should sound. Only thing Dr. Dre is a doctor of is stupidity and drug addiction.

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Yep, did that and it does start the process. I get a security pop up for root password, enter it and then the error that says failed to install because "aborted by user".

 

no idea what the problems is but if you don't want to use the rpm command way kurt showed you then go into yast and uninstall apper and then try installing again.

 

you can always install apper again later.

 

:b33r:

Edited by terry1966
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I wasn't aware that Apper could be removed, thought it was a "system file" kind of thing.

 

I hate this damn computer so much.... every day seems to get slower and slower, I feel like it's as slow as my old single core Pentium 4 was. For what the lousy thing is, it should have cost only 1/4 the price paid.

 

I'm getting about ready to "fix" this thing like shown in this comic.

http://satwcomic.com/computer-technician

 

:bang: Perkele!!! (Finnish swear that is basically a combination of all swears together)

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apper is just another way of installing software and i believe uses yast to do it anyway, so yes it can be installed and uninstalled on a whim without breaking your system, it runs in the background letting you know if there are any updates available for your system without actually having to go into yast to check.

 

to be honest if you've managed to install the 2 dependences then i really don't see why you should have trouble installing the original rpm.

 

just use this command like you did before :-

rpm -ivh zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586.rpm

if you haven't managed to install the 2 dependencies then just download them again and not use the 1 click and then use the above command to install them, simply change the end of the command "zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586.rpm" to whatever rpm package your trying to install.(or remove apper and then try the 1 click again.)

 

here's direct download links to the needed dependencies, just click on them and save file.

 

libsdl (64bit version) :- http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/13.2/standard/x86_64/libSDL-1_2-0-1.2.15-14.1.3.x86_64.rpm

libpng12 :- http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/13.2/standard/src/libpng12-1.2.51-3.1.2.src.rpm

 

and do me a favour, stop bloody moaning about everything, doesn't help you solve your problem and also makes people not bother to help you in the first place.

 

fair enough if you have a problem then mention it and the symptoms, error messages, what you've tried etc, but we're not interested in hearing your moaning, it doesn't help us in helping you and just makes us wonder why we even bother when all it seems you want to do is moan and complain about everything.

 

yes we realize things can get very frustrating at times, but that still doesn't mean we want to read about it ALL THE TIME,

and that what comes across most in your posts. moan, complaining more moaning, etc. etc.

so please stop it and just try and work with us to solve your problems.

 

you haven't really said anything worth reading to help sort out your problem since post 10.

 

i have no idea exactly what you've managed to install or not install so don't really know where we stand on sorting out your original problem of installing the zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586.rpm

 

anyway hope the info at the beginning of this post helps you, see you've even got me wasting 2/3rds of my post ranting and complaining and moaning now. :laughing:

 

:b33r:

Edited by terry1966
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no idea if the dependencies installed or what. downloaded them, chose to save, then clicked each one. ran that command again for zsnes and got the same error again

is it maybe giving errors due to i never installed any graphics driver for the Radeon graphics that is used?

only reason i've not done that is if something goes wrong i have no idea how to fix it

linux:/home/justin/Documents # rpm -ivh zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586.rpm
warning: zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586.rpm: Header V3 DSA/SHA1 Signature, key ID 233ab63d: NOKEY
error: Failed dependencies:
        libSDL-1.2.so.0 is needed by zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586
        libpng12.so.0 is needed by zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586
        libpng12.so.0(PNG12_0) is needed by zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586

aside from that i have no idea any other way to attempt installing this program. i have searched in yast software management and it finds nothing. i do know it is available that way in ubuntu.

searched on google and all results just show for ubuntu and say go to terminal and type "sudo apt-get install zsnes"

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you haven't installed the dependencies and why it's giving you the same error message.

 

put all 3 rpms in the same folder (Documents is what your using), the 2 rpm's i linked to and the original rpm run these commands as root from that folder

rpm -ivh libSDL-1_2-0-1.2.15-14.1.3.x86_64.rpm

rpm -ivh libpng12-1.2.51-3.1.2.src.rpm

rpm -ivh zsnes-1.51-10.1.i586.rpm

the first 2 commands install each of the dependencies and the 3rd installs your program, if for whatever reason any give an error then copy and paste everything from the terminal into your next reply so we can see why they are failing.

 

:b33r:

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did a bit of research and if you want to install an unofficial repo to get the zsnes program then go into yast, software repos,

click on add

make sure dot is in specify url, click next

copy and paste below url into the url box

http:/download.opensuse.org/repositories/Emulators/openSUSE_13.2

type in a name for the repo in box above that. eg. Emularors.

click next to add the repo

 

now you will find zsnes in yast when you search for it.

 

:b33r:

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think there was an error with the libSDL one about it not being compatible and to try 32 bit one instead. i should have ran it again to get the error and copy/paste it here before skipping to next solution... sorry

 

i just decided to try adding that repo (not sure how i missed that one in search results) and that worked just fine. i did notice that during the install it did use a 32 bit version of that libSDL, so guessing that was the whole problem.

 

by the way, that repo url should be http:// right?

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sorry about that should have known you'd need the 32bit and not the 64bit because the xsnes was 32bit, so i just linked to the wrong version.

 

 

by the way, that repo url should be http:// right?

not sure it makes a difference to be honest but yes // is the usual format.

 

 

so guessing that was the whole problem.

not really, the problem was you didn't have the dependencies installed in the first place, then the problem was the libsdl was the wrong version and needed to be the 32bit version and finally you've managed to install it by adding the repo which holds the correct dependencies needed along with the zsnes program. ;)

 

:b33r:

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