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El Tel

To All U. K. Smokers Your Freedom By Nick Clegg

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Hi All UK Smokers

 

Did you see the news the other day when Nick Clegg opened up to the country "Your Freedom"

 

Well I just had to get in there, below are the links to my comments so far. I have also put a link to a "Group Discussion" on my site. You are welcome to join in....

http://picturesinpastels.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!9E5B917E82BEA196!481.entry

http://picturesinpastels.groups.live.com/discussions/discussion.aspx?id=cns!9AE8C613BD41E!113&pageDir=Last&pageHandle=#end

 

 

http://www.number10.gov.uk/

 

http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/repealing-unnecessary-laws/repeal-and-change-the-smoking-ban

 

 

So if you know any "Smokers" they ought to have there say on the "Smoking Ban" with enough support the "Smoking Ban" might just get overturned. Heres hoping... You will have to register, but is hassle free. The sites are slow with the volume of traffic so be patient

 

Nick Clegg might regret starting this, but there could be hope for us smokers if we can get as many people to join in.

 

To locate my comments within the links above, hold down the " Ctrl " & press " f " ( Find ) then type in the search box El Tel

 

Regards

 

El Tel

 

Edit

Removed Dead Links & Re-Newed The Main Link

Edited by El Tel

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I don't live in the UK, but we here in the states have been living under such ridiculous ban everything laws for a while now.

 

It most certainly should be the right of any property owner to decide whether smoking will or will not be allowed in the establishment. Hanging a sign/placard outside the establishment clearly stating that smoking is allowed on the premise should be more then enough to satisfy the ban everything nuts in the world.

 

If you do not wish to be around smoke and or smokers then you simply don't go into such an establishment.

 

Many pubs/bar rooms in my state have turned themselves into "private clubs", where membership is required. Private clubs do not fall under the same rediculous ban everything laws that ones open to the public have to suffer under.

 

I certainly have no problem with any business that decides it wants to be a non-smoking establishment, at the same time I simply don't see where people have a right to :filtered: and moan if one wanted to decide that it was a smoking establishment.

 

That would clearly satisfy the needs of all, and no one would be forced to go into one or the other. It used to be a free country. ;)

Edited by Bruce

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I don't live in the UK, but we here in the states have been living under such ridiculous ban everything laws for a while now.

 

It most certainly should be the right of any property owner to decide whether smoking will or will not be allowed in the establishment. Hanging a sign/placard outside the establishment clearly stating that smoking is allowed on the premise should be more then enough to satisfy the ban everything nuts in the world.

 

If you do not wish to be around smoke and or smokers then you simply don't go into such an establishment.

 

 

 

Many pubs/bar rooms in my state have turned themselves into "private clubs", where membership is required. Private clubs do not fall under the same rediculous ban everything laws that ones open to the public have to suffer under.

 

I certainly have no problem with any business that decides it wants to be a non-smoking establishment, at the same time I simply don't see where people have a right to :filtered: and moan if one wanted to decide that it was a smoking establishment.

 

That would clearly satisfy the needs of all, and no one would be forced to go into one or the other.

It used to be a free country

. ;)

 

Yes you are right on that one.It used to be. A LONG LONG time ago... :mrsgreen:

 

I am a nonsmoker and i don't agree with all the dumb laws that

our elected morons pass every day... :mrgreen:

 

 

.

If you do not wish to be around smoke and or smokers then you simply don't go into such an establishment

That is the ideal solution, however it would not satisfy the

people that think they have a right to impose their will/ideas

on everyone else.. :nono:

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Banning smoking from pubs and enclosed public spaces was the best thing that Labour ever did. If you want to smoke go outside and do it, nobody is stopping you. I don't need to be surrounded by your stink when I go out for a drink. Thank you.

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Over here they have the right to smoke outside where their stinking smoke gets dissipated and not hang in the air in enclosed places.

 

or you could just do your drinking in a non-smoking establishment and quit imposing your will on those that do smoke

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This is so true...

 

The Antis say that if there are bans, people will quit smoking. The politicians need the tax money so the more people that quit smoking the higher the tax goes. The tax also goes up for this percentage of the population when the government decides that only they should pay for the roads and other things that every citizen gets to use. (Imagine if they tried to get just the golfers to pay for a public road, or just the people with a dog in the house, or just the people with one political party affiliation, etc… ?)

http://encyclopedia.smokersclub.com/230.html

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Keep your dirty smoking to yourself.

I certainly don't want a return to the bad old days of smoke filled pubs and clubs, clothes and hair stinking like an old ashtray.

 

No one is stopping you smoking - Just go outside- most places provide a proper area for smokers anyway.

And if anyone want to turn this into a freedom of choice issue - then surely non-smokers have the right to a smoke free environment, asmatics have the right to be in a club/pub with out someone eleses poison affecting us. :geezer:

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Keep your dirty smoking to yourself.

I certainly don't want a return to the bad old days of smoke filled pubs and clubs, clothes and hair stinking like an old ashtray.

 

nobody's forcing you to go into a smoke filled pub. If you do not want to stink like an old ashtray, then why would you go into a smoky pub?

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nobody's forcing you to go into a smoke filled pub. If you do not want to stink like an old ashtray, then why would you go into a smoky pub?

 

It's all or nothing, if the ban is repealed then all pubs and clubs will be smoking otherwise the smokers will cry discrimination. They can take their stinking cancer stick and it's smoke and shove it. Ban smoking in any public area including public walkways.

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nobody's forcing you to go into a smoke filled pub. If you do not want to stink like an old ashtray, then why would you go into a smoky pub?

 

 

I do not have the right to walk into a building and poison someone.. therefore a smoker has no right to walk into a building and poison me. I do not want to get cancer from someone elses habit.

Why should the behaviour of someone else curtail my enjoyment?

I don't want to see smoking banned, I think the current (UK) law goes far enough and as I said most places provide more than adequate facilities for smokers.

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I personally think it should be up to the establishments to decide if they want their business smoking or non-smoking. I'm sure there are a lot of folks that would go to a smoke free pub and enjoy the cleaner atmosphere. Then the smokers could enjoy their death traps too

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I personally think it should be up to the establishments to decide if they want their business smoking or non-smoking. I'm sure there are a lot of folks that would go to a smoke free pub and enjoy the cleaner atmosphere. Then the smokers could enjoy their death traps too

 

Then the smokers would sue the pubs because they can't smoke in them. That's just the way it is over here so I say ban it.

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Hi...

 

This sure ruffled some feathers... Mainly the "Non Smokers" I was fully expecting that from selfish people.... You "Non "Smokers" have all missed the PLOT. It's about "Freedom Of CHOICE" You want to think yourself lucky that the UK Government haven't or are not plaining to make it LAW that "Non Smokers" have to walk into a number 48 BUS at the tender age of 65, just to save paying you any Pension that you've worked hard for all your life... You would moan then, because your "Choice" has been taken away from you...

Now I know a number 48 Bus would more than likely kill me. But that is my "CHOICE" not to walk into one...

 

 

 

Banning smoking from pubs and enclosed public spaces was the best thing that Labour ever did. If you want to smoke go outside and do it, nobody is stopping you. I don't need to be surrounded by your stink when I go out for a drink. Thank you.

I don't think so, or it would have been on page one of their 2005 manifesto, now you find out what page its on and just how much it has changed; by them LAYING Politicians... We've tolerated this for three years, now you stand outside with your pint in the cold, wind, rain and snow.

This makes me sick, to see old "WAR VETERANS" that fort the like of you, stand outside for a cigarette, who by the way; was given cigarettes by the then Government...

 

 

or you could just do your drinking in a non-smoking establishment and quit imposing your will on those that do smoke

 

Spot on Joe, as it used to be; pubs had a snug, lounge and a "Smoking Room" and many still do. Those that converted to half "Smoking" and half "Non Smoking"... In all the pubs that I've been in that were converted, guess where all the "Non Smokers" were... Because they were not hanging around in the "No Smoking" areas...

 

 

Boy I'm enjoying this...

 

Keep your dirty smoking to yourself.

I certainly don't want a return to the bad old days of smoke filled pubs and clubs, clothes and hair stinking like an old ashtray.

 

No one is stopping you smoking - Just go outside- most places provide a proper area for smokers anyway.

And if anyone want to turn this into a freedom of choice issue - then surely non-smokers have the right to a smoke free environment, asmatics have the right to be in a club/pub with out someone eleses poison affecting us. Posted Image

 

Another one that has missed the PLOT competely. After a hard days GRAFT, one need the smell of "Smoke" while drinking a nice pint. It sure drowns the smell of swettie feet and arm pits... C you'll never win with me Posted Image

 

 

nobody's forcing you to go into a smoke filled pub. If you do not want to stink like an old ashtray, then why would you go into a smoky pub?

 

Joe seems to be the only one with common sense. There is not one "Smoker" in this country thats wants to force their smoke onto "Non Smokers", just the "Freedom Of CHOICE" "Public Houses" never closed / shut their doors for good at the rate they are now before the ban came in, so where are the BRAINS behind this load of lost revenue...

 

 

It's all or nothing, if the ban is repealed then all pubs and clubs will be smoking otherwise the smokers will cry discrimination. They can take their stinking cancer stick and it's smoke and shove it. Ban smoking in any public area including public walkways.

 

No no Posted Image no, not all pubs / clubs; those that want to allow "Smoking" ( Note "Freedom Of Choice" ) or or Posted Image or are you just worried that you might have to find somewhere else to drink.

 

 

I do not have the right to walk into a building and poison someone.. therefore a smoker has no right to walk into a building and poison me. I do not want to get cancer from someone elses habit.

Why should the behaviour of someone else curtail my enjoyment?

I don't want to see smoking banned, I think the current (UK) law goes far enough and as I said most places provide more than adequate facilities for smokers.

 

Now you show me PROOF of any one person that has dropped down dead in a public house due to intense cigarette "SMOKE" inhalation.

 

The vast majority of publican I know, spent a lot of money on air conditioning and "Smoke Purifiers" for the like of "Smokers & Non Smokers". Now perhaps that should be LAW "Smoke Purifiers" for the wingding non smokers...

 

 

Right Next Posted Image

 

Edit A couple of typo's Posted Image

Edited by El Tel

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Hi...

 

This sure ruffled some feathers... Mainly the "Non Smokers" I was fully expecting that from selfish people.... You "Non "Smokers" have all missed the PLOT. It's about "Freedom Of CHOICE" You want to think yourself lucky that the UK Government haven't or are not plaining to make it LAW that "Non Smokers" have to walk into a number 48 BUS at the tender age of 65, just to save paying you any Pension that you've worked hard for all your life... You would moan then, because your "Choice" has been taken away from you...

Now I know a number 48 Bus would more than likely kill me. But that is my "CHOICE" not to walk into one...

 

 

 

I don't think so, or it would have been on page one of their 2005 manifesto, now you find out what page its on and just how much it has changed; by them LAYING Politicians... We've tolerated this for three years, now you stand outside with your pint in the cold, wind, rain and snow.

This makes me sick, to see old "WAR VETERANS" that fort the like of you, stand outside for a cigarette, who by the way; was given cigarettes by the then Government...

 

 

Spot on Joe, as it used to be; pubs had a snug, lounge and a "Smoking Room" and many still do. Those that converted to half "Smoking" and half "Non Smoking"... In all the pubs that I've been in that were converted, guess where all the "Non Smokers" were... Because they were not hanging around in the "No Smoking" areas...

 

 

Boy I'm enjoying this...

 

Another one that has missed the PLOT competely. After a hard days GRAFT, one need the smell of "Smoke" while drinking a nice pint. It sure drowns the smell of swettie feet and arm pits... C you'll never win with me Posted Image

 

 

Joe seems to be the only one with common sense. There is not one "Smoker" in this country thats wants to force their smoke onto "Non Smokers", just the "Freedom Of CHOICE" "Public Houses" never closed / shut their doors for good at the rate they are now before the ban came in, so where are the BRAINS behind this load of lost revenue...

 

 

No no Posted Image no, not all pubs / clubs; those that want to allow "Smoking" ( Note "Freedom Of Choice" ) or or Posted Image or are you just worried that you might have to find somewhere else to drink.

 

 

Now you show me PROOF of any one person that has dropped down dead in a public house due to intense cigarette "SMOKE" inhalation.

 

The vast majority of publican I know, spent a lot of money on air conditioning and "Smoke Purifiers" for the like of "Smokers & Non Smokers". Now perhaps that should be LAW "Smoke Purifiers" for the wingding non smokers...

 

 

Right Next Posted Image

 

Edit A couple of typo's Posted Image

 

Looks like the cigarettes are killing your English skills buddy. Stop smoking now. Yeah, I want the choice to not have to smell cigarettes or inhale the smoke. You have a choice, go outside and smoke away from everyone else. Simples.

 

For the record I haven't fort[sp] in any wars unless you're being racist and referring to people with brown skin. If so :filtered: off.

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Hi

 

You are still missing the PLOT... And this was not up for spell checking nor grammar

 

Looks like the cigarettes are killing your English skills buddy. Stop smoking now. Yeah, I want the choice to not have to smell cigarettes or inhale the smoke. You have a choice, go outside and smoke away from everyone else. Simples.

 

For the record I haven't fort[sp] in any wars unless you're being racist and referring to people with brown skin. If so Posted Image off.

 

fort = fought Posted Image ( Combat, or fighting, is purposeful violent conflict intended to establish dominance over the opposition ) Posted Image as for the rest of that line I will treat it with the contempt it deserves.

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Now lets see people die every day from some kind of poisoning, do not eat the red M&Ms, fish or any kind of sea food, all contain poison. A lot of people have died from alcohol poisoning as well the pubs and bars are still open.

 

 

 

I am a veteran and Vietnam left a few holes in me. The government supplied rations for us with a 4 pack of cigarettes include in the rations. Servicemen in boot camp were told to fall out for a break and smoke them if you got them.

 

 

 

As a combat veteran with Echo Company LRRPs Charlie Company Rangers 75th Infantry team #33 I say give us back our freedom.

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Then the smokers would sue the pubs because they can't smoke in them. That's just the way it is over here so I say ban it.

 

No you are wrong.

 

In fact it is almost invariably the other way around. It is the ones who wish to impose their will on "everybody" who sue when they don't get there way, and complain about what others do, that is the very thing that created such wrong laws to begin with.

 

Here is a novel idea for you...........if you want "fresh air" go outside :lol:

 

In all seriousness the very idea that you think government should dictate what a property owner can and can not do inside their own establishment shows you do not value your freedom as much as you do value the government imposing asinine laws upon you and others.

 

The simple and right solution isn't to create laws that ban things but let the owners decide whether they will allow smoking or not inside their establishment. You have a choice wther you wish to patronize a place that allows smoking, if you do not want to be in a place that allows it, then simply don't spend your money in "his/her" shop/pub.

 

Even better yet, if the ban is repealed open your own pub and disallow smoking in it. See how that works, you own it, you make the decision what happens inside it and what doesn't.

 

It's amazing concept, really it is isn't it, if you don't like an establishment you don't go inside it.

 

I have no problem with the government making laws about smoking, drinking and such "in public places". However privately owned businesses are not "public places", they are privately owned, they are not "owned by the public".

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Hi

What an absolute brilliant idea Bruce ( dam why couldn't I have thought of that ) forward thinking for you Posted Image ...

Even better yet, if the ban is repealed open your own pub and disallow smoking in it. See how that works, you own it, you make the decision what happens inside it and what doesn't.

 

It's amazing concept, really it is isn't it, if you don't like an establishment you don't go inside it.

 

I have no problem with the government making laws about smoking, drinking and such "in public places". However privately owned businesses are not "public places", they are privately owned, they are not "owned by the public".

 

There speaks a man with conviction and common sense Posted Image

Now would I wish to enter his pub Posted Image there you go... I've had "Freedom Of Choice"

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I support the government's authority to regulate privately owned property and commercial enterprises. Furthermore, I think that practically everyone does on some issue or to some extent. (Whether such regulation is done wisely is entirely another matter.)

 

Forget for a moment that the issue is smoking and substitute another issue. Try civil rights. Is there anyone here who would argue that the government has no right to compel the integration of theaters, restaurants, hotels, etc? Substitute buiilding codes and fire safety codes. Is there anyone who would argue that property owners should be able to build what they want, however they want, wherever they want? Are there any city dwellers here who want to share a common wall with a fire-trap? Substitute the Uniform Commercial Code which is the basis of business law. Anyone opposed to that? How about health code laws that cover food prepatation and handling?

 

I can understand a belief that a smoking ban is unnecessary or unwise and using that belief to justify one's opposition. But, I suspect that those who oppose a smoking ban based upon the government's right to regulate private enterprise are not being entirely honest with themselves. I suspect that in some instance, however minor, even those opponents would acknowledge the government's authority. Therefore, it is not a matter of principle, but a matter of where to draw the line.

 

 

For the record, I am a former smoker who has no problem with banning smoking inside public accomodations, but I believe that banning smoking in parks and open air stadiums goes too far.

Edited by rhizome

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I no longer drink, and haven't for 23 years now. I never once in all my years of being a non-drinker did I complain that establishments sold alcohol. :lol:

 

Instead I choose for the most part not to frequent places that do sell it. I fully support your right to go there and drink if you wish.

 

I do hope you realize that I have a right not to go into those places because I choose not to.

 

But just remember don't get too peeved when the next bunch of rights stripping nuts in the ban it for everyone because I don't like it crowd comes looking for you. :lol:

 

Some bars/pubs have dancers/strippers, you of course do not have to patronize such a place if you find it distasteful.

 

Some bars/pubs are dirty little dives, you of course do not have to patronize such a place if you find it distasteful.

 

Some bars/pubs have dress codes, you of course do not have to patronize such a place if you don't want to get dressed up.

 

Some bars/pubs cater specifically to the sports crowds, you of course do not have to patronize such a place if you find it distasteful.

 

Some bars/pubs owners may want to allow their patrons to smoke, you of course do not have to patronize such a place if you find it distasteful.

 

Some bars/pub owners may not want to allow smoking in their establishment, you of course do not have to patronize such a place if you find it distasteful.

Edited by Bruce

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In all seriousness the very idea that you think government should dictate what a property owner can and can not do inside their own establishment shows you do not value your freedom as much as you do value the government imposing asinine laws upon you and others.

 

I suppose you don't think the government should implement laws to stop people raping, killing and selling drugs on private property that they own? :unsure:

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The relevance between those crimes and the right of property owner to decide what he can do with his property and what he can't is??

 

You really need to at least present a semi reasonable metaphor if you are going to use them. ;)

Edited by Bruce

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