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Bruce

New firewire standard

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New firewire standard in the very near future, it will increase from the current 800mb/s to 3.2Gbps.

 

Firewire already blows usb2 out of the water in many ways, but the new quadruple increase in speed is great news. I am looking forward to the new standard, I always have firewire on every computer I build.

 

On Thursday, the 1394 Trade Association announced the S3200 electrical specification for FireWire. The specification builds upon the existing IEEE 1394b standard by boosting the maximum speed from 800 megabits per second to 3.2Gbps. Importantly, S3200 can use the cables and connectors already in use for FireWire 800 products, the association claimed.

"There is a very clear migration path from 800Mbps to 3.2Gbps, with no need for modifications to the standard and no requirement for new cables or connectors."

The association's statement claimed the development of S3200 meant users would see no advantage from eSATA, a competing connectivity standard that is starting to appear on hard drives and PCs alike. The association said that eSATA is not faster, nor can it provide electrical power to devices as FireWire can. S3200 is also much faster than USB 2.0 and can provide more power to devices than USB 2.0.

The association also said that FireWire would soon be able to operate over cable television coaxial cables, and said S3200 would make the standard fast enough to move uncompressed high-definition television signals over long distances at a lower cost than HDMI, the current standard for HD connections.

 

FireWire is, according to the association, "the only separable interface today that can record HD programs in their full digital quality

 

http://msn-cnet.com.com/FireWire-speeds-se..._3-6223102.html

Edited by Bruce

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Well if you use external hard drives or camcorders then firewire is the smart choice.

 

USB 2.0 claims 480 transfer speeds, but to be honest, it doesn't even come close, and will vary up and down in speeds, in other words it sucks :lol: It was originally designed devices that don't require much speed, like mice and keyboards or low res webcams.

 

Firewire on the other hand was designed originally for transferring data from devices such a camcorders and required a huge amount of throughput, and required that throughput to be consistent. Thus the claims of 400/800 mb/s and soon to be 3.2 gb/s are not only actual throughput speeds, but they are sustainable speeds.

 

This makes firewire the smart choice when it comes to external drives and other devices that are best suited to sustainable speeds and high transfer rates.

 

An external drive will never even come close to saturating a firewire connection, however the speed increase over usb 2.0 can be double and triple in some cases. The best part of course is that the speed you get with firewire remains constant, while usn 2.0 will fluctuate all over the place.

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Well if you use external hard drives or camcorders then firewire is the smart choice.

 

USB 2.0 claims 480 transfer speeds, but to be honest, it doesn't even come close, and will vary up and down in speeds, in other words it sucks :lol: It was originally designed devices that don't require much speed, like mice and keyboards or low res webcams.

 

Firewire on the other hand was designed originally for transferring data from devices such a camcorders and required a huge amount of throughput, and required that throughput to be consistent. Thus the claims of 400/800 mb/s and soon to be 3.2 gb/s are not only actual throughput speeds, but they are sustainable speeds.

 

This makes firewire the smart choice when it comes to external drives and other devices that are best suited to sustainable speeds and high transfer rates.

 

An external drive will never even come close to saturating a firewire connection, however the speed increase over usb 2.0 can be double and triple in some cases. The best part of course is that the speed you get with firewire remains constant, while usn 2.0 will fluctuate all over the place.

 

USB 3.0 is going to be faster than that (theoretically)4.8Gbps, and eSATA is a lot better than Firewire or USB for external HDs, except for one caveat that I know of: eSATA is unpowered.

 

Can't leave wireless USB out of the mix either.

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USB, makes ridiculous claims. It makes claims based on "theoretical speeds" that it has never been able to achieve, and it can't sustain those speeds.

 

Firewire is capable of sustaining speed, and does so extremely reliably.

 

Comparing wireless to firewire is so damn funny it almost isn't worth commenting on.

 

eSATA, while comparable in speed for hard drives only, it isn't as flexible, and is very, very limited.

 

firewire can be used for network connections without special add ons or drivers, it can be used for cameras without any special add ons or connectors, it can be used for hard drives without any special add ons or drivers, numerous handhelds, it can capture raw video streams, mpeg streams, hd streams................. firewire devices work regardless of the port speed of the computer. It just works

 

USB devices require special drivers, many usb 2.0 devices do not work on the older usb 1.0 ports, transfer rates are slower, and speeds fluctuate making it an unreliable, the bus can be easily saturated making a computer unresponsive.

 

eSATA, does one thing and one thing only, and isn't as portable as usb or firewire.

 

Wireless? Requires special hardware, speeds vary, network traffic can throw a monkey wrench into anything requiring a lot of bandwidth, too many variables and incompaitbilities between the numerous and differing standards, often requires quite a bit more knowledge then the average computer user has.

 

Firewire..............plug in a device, it works, it works fast, and it works extremely reliably. The same can not be said about any of the others.

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I really don't like USB much myself. I'm just saying, Firewire isn't the only one embracing multi-Gbps speeds. And eSATA is limited in what it can do, but it's better than Firewire and USB for hard drives.

 

Even though it is an Apple technology, I rather like Firewire.

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Actually I don't think eSATA is faster.

 

It may "currently" have a higher theoretical speed, but I do not believe that it reaches speeds any higher then firewire.

 

That said, how do I go about plugging an eSATA drive into my laptop, or my wifes desktop, or any other machine that doesn't have onboard eSATA connectors?

 

Not to mention that I won't have to buy any special new cables or interfaces for the new firewire standard, my current cables and interfaces will work.

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Actually I don't think eSATA is faster.

 

It may "currently" have a higher theoretical speed, but I do not believe that it reaches speeds any higher then firewire.

 

That said, how do I go about plugging an eSATA drive into my laptop, or my wifes desktop, or any other machine that doesn't have onboard eSATA connectors?

 

Not to mention that I won't have to buy any special new cables or interfaces for the new firewire standard, my current cables and interfaces will work.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#External_SATA

 

http://forums.macresource.com/read/1/290887

 

Never did I say it was widespread, but there are laptops that have eSATA ports, due to its higher throughput than either Firewire 800, or USB 2.0.

 

And, eSATA supports transfer rates of up to 300MB/sec, or theoretically, 3x faster than FireWire 800.

Edited by brandon

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There's that "magical" word theoretically. :lol:

 

Hard drives are not capable of saturating eSATA, and certainly not firewire.

 

The full IEEE 1394b specification supports data rates up to 3200 Mbit/s

 

In December 2007, the 1394 Trade Association announced the products will soon be available using S3200 mode which was already (mostly) defined in 1394b.

 

Here is an SATA hard drive. These are pretty good damn speeds, and don't even come close to the "theoretical" bandwidth.

 

SuSE-Quad:/home/bruce # hdparm -tT /dev/sda

 

/dev/sda:

Timing cached reads: 8402 MB in 2.00 seconds = 4205.71 MB/sec

Timing buffered disk reads: 236 MB in 3.00 seconds = 78.55 MB/sec

My point being that "theoretical" speeds mean nothing. Reliability, versatility, and constant transfer speeds are what counts, while eSATA may meet the reliability, and consistency, it certainly doesn't meet the versatility mark.

 

The new standard will bridge the "theoretical" speed space, and retain backwards compatibility as it is already defined in the current standard 1394b. So I guess because it has been in 1394b, it was just a matter of getting recognized as a standard.

 

In other words, it is already capable.

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How do you get those speeds Bruce?

 

I use JFS, and I don't get anywhere near those speeds. But then, I have a lowly 250GB drive, with the JFS partition on the middle, where transfers are slower than at the beginning of the drive.

 

[email protected]:~$ sudo hdparm -tT /dev/sda2

 

/dev/sda2:

Timing cached reads: 3384 MB in 2.00 seconds = 1692.08 MB/sec

Timing buffered disk reads: 170 MB in 3.02 seconds = 56.38 MB/sec

 

 

Edit: And it is capable with fiber optic cables, which will no doubt be a little pricey. I never doubted FireWire's versatility, nor its superiority to USB, it's just that 3200mbps FireWire isn't the only game in town.

 

And I only mentioned eSATA because I find it intriguing. But, I will admit that you have thorougly pwn3d me Bruce.

Edited by brandon

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I still cannot believe i am so far behind §

 

Only about 12 years behind :lol:

 

firewire has been around since 1995 :P

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no doubt firewire is great...but why so few devices around for it? most popular devices are usb, can't say I've ever seen a firewire thumb drive

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Because............Intel/Microsoft and others backed USB, leaving apple to develop and support firewire by itself.

 

In other words, although USB is inferior in so many ways, because MS and other huge companies created and backed USB, it became the defacto on guess what............IBM clones otherwise known as the PC :lol:

 

USB was created for one purpose only, as a competitor to firewire. You see, like everything else that MS,Intel (Wintel) did in those days they just had to have their own standard, even if it was inferior, and it most certainly was and still is inferior today.

 

Amazing how monopolies can control things isn't it. It is a perfect example how monopolies do more harm to the industry then good.

 

Did you know that Microsoft operating systems ship with firewire speeds limited? (This is by design) Windows Vista doesn't even ship with support for 1394b, which has been around since 2003. Xp supports 1394b, but rather then it running at it's full 800mb/s it is limited to 100mb/s.

 

Microsoft Windows XP supports both, but as of Service Pack 2, each FireWire device will run at S100 (100 Mbit/second) speed. A download is available from Microsoft which enables devices rated at S400 or S800 speeds to operate at their rated speed.[6] Some FireWire hardware manufacturers also provide custom device drivers which replace the Microsoft OHCI host adapter driver stack, enabling S800-capable devices to run at full 800 Mbit/s transfer rates. Microsoft Windows Vista currently supports only 1394a, with 1394b support coming later in a service pack.

Windows is the only operating system on the market which purposely limits the transfer speeds of firewire. Sad when a company that size sets out to destroy a superior standard, because a "non-partner" created it.

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This is what tech talk is al about :clap: i think such an interface should be standard and not an option on all pc*s, my point from the beginning :)

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I wouldn't expect ford motor co to tell gm how to make a more fuel effiecient engine and it's the same for o.s. manufacture's. Therein lies the problem....M$ really has no competition so they don't feel the pressure to improve or make an o.s. that's compatable with what's out there, or even attempt to comply, M$ knows that they can run the show and even limit what the competition can do within their o.s. If M$ had some serious competition, you'd see a change in attitude

Edited by Joe C

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I remember needing sp1 in xp to make usb function using a intel mobo ! is that there way to combat pirating, plus i needed an access code to get the driver from intels site ?

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