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Video: PC v. Mac - Apples to Apples Comparison

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DING DING DING!

 

We have a winner! That's why I've been saying Macs are PCs all along. Because they are, in fact, "Personal Computers".

 

I knew I'd get you to say it eventually. :P

 

What? If that's your definition of "PC" then where is there any dispute? I can't imagine that most Mac users would disagree with this definition.

 

Now, when are you going to tell me how to get Mac OS X on my old Dells? I'm so excited and I want to get started with installing! :D

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You can't install OSX on anything other than Intel PCs, since PC OSX requires SSE3, which only Pentium 4 Prescott, Venice Core & above Athlon64s, and Core 2 processors offer.

Well, let's say that I pick up a PC with a Pentium 4 Presscott, or Athlon64.

 

So—I just slip in the Mac OS X disk and it installs, right? Tell me how easy it is. I'm looking forward to doing this!

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It's just like installing OSX on a PC. You just pop the disk in, and go. You just need an AMD, or Intel processor that supports at least SSE2, though SSE3 is preferable.

 

Of course, you have to download OSx86, and go through the grueling process of burning it to a disk though.

Edited by brandon

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It's just like installing OSX on a PC.

Well, installing OS X on my "PC" (Intel Mac) is pretty simple. I pop in the disk, reboot, and it installs. Then I just download all the updates from Apple, no fuss no muss.

 

You just pop the disk in, and go. You just need an AMD, or Intel processor that supports at least SSE2, though SSE3 is preferable.

Ooh! You mean that's all there is to it? An AMD or Intel processor that supports SSE2 or SSE3? Hmmmm.

 

Of course, you have to download OSx86, and go through the grueling process of burning it to a disk though.

 

And then of course this page says this:

 

In building your "Hackintosh" however, you may want to keep as close to the hardware configuration of Intel-based Macs for the best compatibility.

Which is what I was saying several pages back. For best compatibility you need to have your computer be as close to Intel Macs as possible. Anything less than that might not get you best compatibility. So there are compatibility issues, clearly. And last I checked, an AMD processor is not a processor that is used in Intel-based Macs. My AMD-based PC might face "compatibility" issues, then, according to OSX86's FAQ page. This does not sound like it's an identical experience to what I have when I install Mac OS X on my Intel-based Mac.

 

Furthermore, the OSX86 experience is not the same as when installing Windows on an Intel based Mac. It's legal, we don't have to worry about installing updates (like OSX86 users are when updating Mac OS X), and we don't have to go through near the troublshooting and tweaking as OSX86ers clearly do. We don't worry about "compatibility" issues.

Edited by elvers

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hey, i think it's cool. just the fact that we have choices out there is cool. i use windows and linux, the only reason i don't use osx is because i don't feel like paying a premium on my hardware. :)

 

BB, not sure if there are computer shows in your area or not, but the way I tested OSX was to go to a show, buy an old Mac G4, for $150 bring it home and have fun with it.

 

I was very surprised and extremely pleased with the speed that machine ran at, considering it's age, and the fact that it had the latest OS from Apple on it.

 

It was a 400mhz machine with 256mb of PC 100 and ran OSX as well as my dual core machines ran Windows Vista.

 

I tried Vista on a lot of hardware, and know for a fact that it never would have run on machine of similar speed.

 

While it may not be the ideal Mac machine, if you would really like to give it a whirl and don't have computer shows in your are, drop me a PM and I can go to one and see what is available.

 

It is a cheap way to really try out OSX.

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Someone brought up works of art. Art is defined differently by differerent people. In the old days, when I put a '69 425HP 396 Chevy engine into a Pontiac Lemans GT Sport Coupe, that was art to me. When I bought a AAR Cuda with the triple dueces, that was art to me as it was. I liked my cars fast, clean, and dependable.

 

Now I build computers and each one is a work of art to me. I like my computers (whether for myself or someone else) fast, clean and dependable as well. Anyone who doesn't appreciate my systems is more than welcome to buy their's somewhere else.

 

The OS X thing has been beaten to death. There's one reason that OS X won't legally install easily on any modern PC. Apple. That hasn't changed since the 1st page of this thread. Apple is content to restrict their OS to systems that they can charge twice as much for, and some people are content to pay it.

 

My only problem is when Mac owners claim their systems are as fast as my custom built PCs, or will do everything my PCs will, and better. "That presentation would have looked much better if it had been done on a Mac." Pllllease!

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Someone brought up works of art. Art is defined differently by differerent people. In the old days, when I put a '69 425HP 396 Chevy engine into a Pontiac Lemans GT Sport Coupe, that was art to me. When I bought a AAR Cuda with the triple dueces, that was art to me as it was. I liked my cars fast, clean, and dependable.

Oh dear. A list of hardware. *yawn*

 

Now I build computers and each one is a work of art to me. I like my computers (whether for myself or someone else) fast, clean and dependable as well. Anyone who doesn't appreciate my systems is more than welcome to buy their's somewhere else.

Except that you clearly feel that anyone who chooses, for example, a Mac is (let's see now . . . ) "ignorant," will have a hard time "justifying" the cost, have no "good reason" for choosing it, and it's "their loss" if they don't see the light and choose—dare I say it?—a Windows-based computer.

 

Why do you care? Why on earth do you care so much if they make that choice? You didn't answer my question before when I asked you—to whom does a Mac person have to "justify" their purchase to? To you?

 

And you also didn't answer my question about what is a good enough "reason" for choosing a Mac. Is preferring the Mac OS a good enough reason? You seem to think not, because you still talked about Mac users not having any "good reason" for using it, even though we've been saying all along that we prefer it.

 

Is wanting to run Mac-only apps a good enough reason? Your previous posts have given no indication that you feel this is the case. Even though I have no doubt that when a person says that they bought a PC to run Windows software, you'd consider that a good enough reason.

 

The OS X thing has been beaten to death. There's one reason that OS X won't legally install easily on any modern PC. Apple.

Yeah, my exact point too. Installing OS X on a PC with an AMD processor is not going to be the same experience as installing OS X on an Intel Mac. Some are trying to imply that it's just as easy—just slip in that disk and away you go. But it's not easy, and the OSX86 site makes it clear that there are compatibility issues. Looking at the OSX86 message board more than confirms this. While the OSX86 project sounds rather fascinating and probably fun for those with the skill and resources to dedicate time for it, it's not something for the masses.

 

That hasn't changed since the 1st page of this thread. Apple is content to restrict their OS to systems that they can charge twice as much for

Did I pay twice as much for an Intel Mac Mini, compared to a very similar (meaning in size, specs, etc) PC? A very similar PC at half the price of my Mac Mini would be a 2" high by 6.5" square box with extremely similar specs, with Vista Ultimate (not a limited version of Vista) and this PC would be already assembled. Not finding it at $300, sorry.

and some people are content to pay it.

We prefer a particular product and we are willing to pay to have it. We and we alone get to decide whether it is worth it to us. We do not need to "justify" its cost to anyone else. We do not find all operating systems or applications interchangable, and so we go with the one we prefer. If we pay more for it, well, there's that old saying about "you get what you pay for." We feel we are getting our money's worth.

 

My only problem is when Mac owners claim their systems are as fast as my custom built PCs, or will do everything my PCs will, and better.

No, that is not your only problem. Because if that were your only problem, why did you make comments to me about how "ignorant" I am? Did I tell you that my system runs as fast as your custom built PCs? Did I say anything other than I preferred my Mac, and that I was not "missing out" on anything? I asked you before what I was missing out on by preferring my Mac (bearing in mind that I also own PCs), you never told me.

"That presentation would have looked much better if it had been done on a Mac." Pllllease!

 

Who here has said that to you?

 

Again, I'll ask you, because I really want to know. To whom do Mac users have to justify the cost of their purchases to? And while you're at it, what is a good enough reason to buy a Mac? You stated before that most Mac users don't have any "good reason" for their choice. Please elaborate.

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You stated before that most Mac users don't have any "good reason" for their choice. Please elaborate.

 

elvers, great post.

 

I will take the liberty of addressing your question. ;)

 

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

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BB, not sure if there are computer shows in your area or not, but the way I tested OSX was to go to a show, buy an old Mac G4, for $150 bring it home and have fun with it.

 

I was very surprised and extremely pleased with the speed that machine ran at, considering it's age, and the fact that it had the latest OS from Apple on it.

 

It was a 400mhz machine with 256mb of PC 100 and ran OSX as well as my dual core machines ran Windows Vista.

 

I tried Vista on a lot of hardware, and know for a fact that it never would have run on machine of similar speed.

 

While it may not be the ideal Mac machine, if you would really like to give it a whirl and don't have computer shows in your are, drop me a PM and I can go to one and see what is available.

 

It is a cheap way to really try out OSX.

 

that's quite interesting, something i hadn't thought of. we do have quite a few computer shows around here, but to be honest, i haven't been to one of them. i think i need to. :lol:

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Adding to Bruce's comment, I recently picked up a G4 450 with 128 MB RAM for about $80 (including shipping). Got it on eBay. I added some more RAM to it, and it's humming away nicely with Tiger. I really am impressed with how well these old Macs perform under Tiger. Sure, it's still an old machine, but OS X is not dog slow or anything.

 

It'll be a good little Internet machine. I might let my sister use it (she's interested in Garageband).

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Much better then just internet machines. We used ours fro pretty much everything. Ran great I was truly impressed with it. :geezer:

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elvers, great post.

 

I will take the liberty of addressing your question. ;)

 

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

 

Excellent point Bruce. According to your hypothesis, I should be selling Apple systems to 8-9% of the general public if I understand that Apple systems are worth the additional costs.

 

Fortunately for me, I don't understand why anyone would spend twice as much on a system that doesn't perform as fast and is limited to the programs that Apple sees fit to let me use on their systems. Fortunately for me, I don't have to be dependant upon a slower Apple system myself while I'm trying to convince potential customers to spend more on an Apple system.

 

More fortunately for me, I've chosen to go with a specific niche, which is custom PCs. Now I'm happy, my customers are happy, and my family is happy. I don't have to pretend to buy into Apple nor big 3 rhetoric, nor be concerned with anyone who disagree with my views.

 

But this is where your hypothesis lacks truth for my situation. I'm not dependent upon an income at this point in my life. I could also go back to being a manager or work for someone else, but I choose not to as I enjoy what I'm doing. So my choices are based upon what I want to do, rather than dependencies of any kind. :)

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New Mac laptops start at $1099, not $1999. Occasionally Apple offers factory refurbished models as low as $799. New desktops (Mac Minis) start at $599 - less for refurbs.

 

I have owned both Macs and PC's since the mid-ninties and although there are certainly more apps out for PC's, I have found far more things that I could do on a Mac, but not on a PC, than visa versa. Yes, games are indeed, more plentiful on PC's, which is why I own both.

 

But Mac owners today, have the luxury of being able to run PC apps as well as PC's do. So the only relevant argument here is that PC's cannot run both OS's as Macs can do.

 

The real reason Macs are much better however, is that the OS is infinitely superior and more stable. Mac owners spend almost no time at all bogged down in maintenance. Have you noticed, there is no MacPitstop??

 

I rest my case:-)

 

 

Bob Harris

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wait a minute...that doesn't add up...

 

a new dell laptop can be had for 499. now i know that osx doesn't cost 600 dollars.

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New Mac laptops start at $1099, not $1999. Occasionally Apple offers factory refurbished models as low as $799. New desktops (Mac Minis) start at $599 - less for refurbs.

 

I have owned both Macs and PC's since the mid-ninties and although there are certainly more apps out for PC's, I have found far more things that I could do on a Mac, but not on a PC, than visa versa. Yes, games are indeed, more plentiful on PC's, which is why I own both.

 

But Mac owners today, have the luxury of being able to run PC apps as well as PC's do. So the only relevant argument here is that PC's cannot run both OS's as Macs can do.

 

The real reason Macs are much better however, is that the OS is infinitely superior and more stable. Mac owners spend almost no time at all bogged down in maintenance. Have you noticed, there is no MacPitstop??

 

I rest my case:-)

Bob Harris

 

Infinitely more stable than what? Windows? Linux? BeOS? OS/2? DOS? FreeDOS? PC-DOS? QDOS? QNX? You need to be specific. If you're speaking of Windows, yes, but OSX is not more stable then Linux or BeOS.

 

For the record, OSX can be run on non-Mac PCs.

 

There is no case to rest, because you never had one. I tried searching for information in your posts to back up your claims, but alas, I found none.

Edited by brandon

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What's the point of arguing if no one is open minded and can't be convinced. Arguing over the internet is like the special olympics, even if you win you're still :filtered: slower than the average bear.

Edited by Saunders

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What's the point of arguing if no one is open minded and can't be convinced. Arguing over the internet is like the special olympics, even if you win you're still :filtered:.

 

If you had noticed, nobody was really arguing until the people who started claming Macs are better than PCs came in. It only takes a spark to create a flame.

 

Arguing over the internet is no reetarded. In fact, it can be quite refreshing, because you may actually find someone who has an intellect, and be able to have a good argument, instead of resorting to pettiness, insults, or baseless claims. ;)

Edited by brandon

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bears can be quite quick, actually. the grizzly bear runs about 30mph, faster than the average human. so yes, we are slower than the average bear.

 

 

i can has intertube argument?!

Edited by badbinary

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Excellent point Bruce. According to your hypothesis, I should be selling Apple systems to 8-9% of the general public if I understand that Apple systems are worth the additional costs.

No. I'm pretty sure that's not what he means. That's not how I'm interpreting it, anyway.

 

What he means is that people like you seem doggedly determined to not understand why anyone would choose a Mac. Because you sell a competing product, you can't see the forest for the trees. You can't expand your world view beyond your own little narrow universe.

 

Not that you should sell Macs yourself—you can't even understand why anyone, anywhere, would want one. Which is why you make cracks about us being "ignorant" and "sticking with what we know" (though we often own PCs or also run Windows and definitely know both sides). And then you say stuff like "can't justify the cost" and "no good reason" for wanting a Mac. Because (in your apparently limited world view), one size fits all, and that size is a Windows (or maybe Linux) based PC. Therefore no one in their right mind would make any other choice. Because that would be a choice which you don't understand. And if you don't understand a something, it must be wrong, it must be based on ignorance, and therefore you have no qualms about denigrating it.

 

I may prefer Mac, it may be my favorite, I may think it's better for me, but I can fathom the concept of why people would prefer Windows. It doesn't bother me that they choose it, and it wouldn't occur to me to insult them and tell them they were deluded if they decided to stick with it. If they seem to be getting around okay, what is there to talk about? They're happy. All I ask is that they don't insult me for my choices, and we're all golden.

 

Honestly, I pity anyone who cannot respect and comprehend that there are different needs and tastes in this world.

 

I'm getting to the point where I don't believe you're for real. No one can be this rigid and narrow-minded. Are you just yanking our chains here, or what?

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For the record, OSX can be run on non-Mac PCs.

 

 

Yeah, and it's been established, over and over and over again, that OSX can sometimes run pretty crappy on a non-Mac PC. It's not a solution for ordinary consumers, and requires specific hardware for "best compatibility." Compatibility issues are not a concern when installing Windows on an Intel-based Mac.

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No. I'm pretty sure that's not what he means. That's not how I'm interpreting it, anyway.

 

What he means is that people like you seem doggedly determined to not understand why anyone would choose a Mac. Because you sell a competing product, you can't see the forest for the trees. You can't expand your world view beyond your own little narrow universe.

 

Not that you should sell Macs yourself—you can't even understand why anyone, anywhere, would want one. Which is why you make cracks about us being "ignorant" and "sticking with what we know" (though we often own PCs or also run Windows and definitely know both sides). And then you say stuff like "can't justify the cost" and "no good reason" for wanting a Mac. Because (in your apparently limited world view), one size fits all, and that size is a Windows (or maybe Linux) based PC. Therefore no one in their right mind would make any other choice. Because that would be a choice which you don't understand. And if you don't understand a something, it must be wrong, it must be based on ignorance, and therefore you have no qualms about denigrating it.

 

I may prefer Mac, it may be my favorite, I may think it's better for me, but I can fathom the concept of why people would prefer Windows. It doesn't bother me that they choose it, and it wouldn't occur to me to insult them and tell them they were deluded if they decided to stick with it. If they seem to be getting around okay, what is there to talk about? They're happy. All I ask is that they don't insult me for my choices, and we're all golden.

 

Honestly, I pity anyone who cannot respect and comprehend that there are different needs and tastes in this world.

 

I'm getting to the point where I don't believe you're for real. No one can be this rigid and narrow-minded. Are you just yanking our chains here, or what?

 

Dark41 makes his bread off of a custom PC company, I can kinda see why he would be rather biased.

 

People prefer Windows because it is what drives the market, and is what people are used to. People prefer OSX, and the thousands of Linux distros because they are more secure than Windows, more versatile than Windows, and cost a lot less than Windows (Linux is free, OSX is $129, and can be installed on up to 5 PCs)

 

So, PCs give you plenty of choice, and so do Apple PCs.

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