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Video: PC v. Mac - Apples to Apples Comparison

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Everything you just said is splitting hairs at best, and totally irrelevant to the topic at hand at worst.

 

I just googled and found 5 different cubes in the USA that are completely assembled and go for the same price as the e-cube with all components. All are superior systems to the Apple mini and iMac. Google it yourself if you don't believe me, or better yet, call Apple support and ask them to google it for you. But of course these cubes won't run the few Apple programs that you mentioned. But if your preference for the few Apple programs helps you justify the cost and allows you to remain a fanboy, by all means stick with what you know.

 

I guess this is a good part of why 92% of the people in the world don't own Apple systems. Even Apple system owners can't come up with a good reason for paying double the price for a slower system other than "we like it as it is" or "I had a bad experience with a PC 10 years ago". Better to try to steer off-topic about mini prices, at least until you're proven wrong. The same argument can be used for every new and innovative idea in the world. "We're not changing because we like it as it is." That's called ignorance, and ignorance hampers your ability to improve. It's your loss.

 

You may have the last word. :)

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Oh, another thing I forgot to ask in the last post:

 

Since you believe that computer kits and ready-made computers are comparable, does the company you work for sell kits? If so, how many models do they sell as kits? Would they consider changing all their computers over to kits rather than selling fully assembled models? After all, according to you kits are comparable to assembled computers, and anyone can put them together.

 

Also, would your company consider mailing a customer a do-it-yourself kit (with easy-to-follow instructions that apparently grandma can follow) when the customer ordered a fully assembled computer? If not, why not? After all, they are comparable (according to you), so the customer should not have any problem with this.

 

If you'd read my posts, you'd know that all this has been covered before.

 

I work for the custom computer company that I own. This is the luxury of being a custom shop, and not restricted to bundles like Dell, as we build each and every system to the customer's needs. And you bet, we'll build most anything someone asks for (short of a all-in-one system) or direct them to someone who will. We'll sell kits as is, with components separate, or assembled with a slight markup for our time. In fact, our used e-cube is for sale right now. That's what "custom" is all about, giving the customer a choice.

 

The number of kits or minis we'll supply is only restricted by our suppliers at any given time, since we don't carry these in stock. I believe the majority of these cubes go to gamers who are quite happy to build it themselves. The only real difference is that these systems will have the manufacturer's warranty instead of ours.

 

And no, we will not mail systems. We'll deliver locally and set them up (all for free) or provide pickup. We have more than enough business locally and don't care to deal with support issues long distance. It's pretty hard to offer a 2 year in home/office warranty long distance.

 

So once again, your point is irrelevant.

Edited by dark41

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Everything you just said is splitting hairs at best, and totally irrelevant to the topic at hand at worst.

No, I see it more that you made some claims that were not accurate, and I asked you to back them up. You couldn't. You shifted over to kits, which is not at all comparable. So, seeing that you weren't going to answer the question honestly, I had to get excruciatingly specific.

 

The first claim that you made was that mini PCs that are comparable to a Mac Mini can be had for half the price. "Comparable" means very similar. In the case of a Mac Mini, this would mean a mini PC which is approx. 2-inch tall, 6.5-inch square, with an Intel Core Duo processor (or equivalent), 512 megs RAM, 60 GB HDD, firewire, several USB ports, bluetooth/wireless, etc. and with Vista Ultimate (not a watered down version of Windows) for about $300 US (since the Mac Mini starts at $600, $300 is half that). Show me who is selling something like that. Heck, at $300 I'd love to pick one up. Sounds like a great deal.

 

The other claim you made was that all-in-one PCs cost the same as similarly configured boxy desktops. So far you haven't backed that up either. I see no evidence that Dell, HP or any other name brand company makes no difference in price between ordinary boxes and all-in-ones, if the hardware specs are equivalent. The all-in-ones cost more.

 

I just googled and found 5 different cubes in the USA that are completely assembled and go for the same price as the e-cube with all components. All are superior systems to the Apple mini and iMac. Google it yourself if you don't believe me

 

I have Googled looking for $300 small Intel Core Duo Mini PCs, but I have to say, I'm not finding them.

 

But of course these cubes won't run the few Apple programs that you mentioned.

And that's another important point, yes. Some of us do want the Apple-exclusive software. We get to have both with an Intel Mac—all the Windows software, all the Mac software. Why wouldn't we want that?

But if your preference for the few Apple programs helps you justify the cost

"justify the cost"? To whom? Does a gamer have to "justify" the cost of a high end gaming rig? To whom? If they want it, they buy it. It's their money. Who else's business is it, anyway?

 

and allows you to remain a fanboy, by all means stick with what you know.

"Stick with what I know"? I have known Windows longer than I have known the Mac. I started out on Windows. Nice try, though.

 

I guess this is a good part of why 92% of the people in the world don't own Apple systems. Even Apple system owners can't come up with a good reason for paying double the price for a slower system other than "we like it as it is" or "I had a bad experience with a PC 10 years ago".

Again with the "no good reason." What exactly would be a "good reason" for you? It seems like there is no such thing as a "good reason" if it doesn't point to PCs. "I want to use Final Cut Pro" (an industry standard) doesn't seem to be a good reason. But I'll bet if someone claimed they stuck with Windows because they wanted to run a Windows-only app, you'd consider that a "good reason."

 

A recurrent theme in these sorts of arguments is the assumption that everyone feels the same way and likes the same things. Some people (few, I'll guess) find no difference between the operating systems. Others do, and have a marked preference. Is their preference not a "reason" or what? Is liking Linux a reason for using a Linux computer, or isn't it? Or does it always have to roll back to the cost of the hardware, as if nothing else counts?

 

Same with applications. If someone finds a certain application excellent, why should they have to settle for something else, if they can afford to use the application that they prefer? Really, I don't understand some of your reasoning here. All of this comes down to preference, and what we want to use. It's our money, we buy what we want. Every computer user, no matter what OS they prefer, does this.

 

Better to try to steer off-topic about mini prices, at least until you're proven wrong.

You made a B.S. claim and I just wanted you to back it up. You can't seem to do that without introducing kits.

The same argument can be used for every new and innovative idea in the world. "We're not changing because we like it as it is."

Oh, the irony.

That's called ignorance, and ignorance hampers your ability to improve. It's your loss.

 

What am I losing out on? Am I losing out on the ability to run Windows apps? No. Am I missing out on running Final Cut Pro (which I really like) no. Am I not being exposed to PCs and Windows? No. I own PCs too, as well as have Windows installed on my Mac. The big distinction is that I use both Mac and PC, I own both Mac and PC, and I say that I like my Mac. The horror! Oh no! The ignorance! How ignorant of me to weigh my options and spend my money on what I prefer! It's not like anyone else does that. :rolleyes:

 

Also, I asked you if your company would present a customer with a kit when they asked for a assembled computer. After all, you claim that kits are "comparable" to assembled computers. So, I am to assume that you'd see no problem with giving a kit and telling them that they can assemble it themselves, even though they didn't order that? It's not like there's any difference.

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Don't speak of bias if you yourself are biased. Kinda hypocritical don't ya think? ;)

 

I'm a fan of whatever gets the job done. That's why I have Linux, Windows 2000, and Mac OSX all installed on my PC. When I want productivity, I use Linux. When I want gaming, I use Windows. When I want an OS that looks really nice, and does pretty much everything Linux can do, I use OSX, even though it is redundant.

 

I'd agree with you there: whatever gets the job done. I may be biased (we all are), but I'm not going to go making some :filtered: like this - not many people would. It's a waste of time... If you couldn't figure that much out then you probably should have skipped my post entirely. ;)

 

 

BTW, posting what ever degrees you may or may not have does not make you any more knowledgeable on the subject.

 

False. That piece of paper symbolizes that I'm more knowledgeable about the subject than someone without it. It's not a dead fact that I necessarily will always be more knowledgeable, but it's grounds for believing that I know what I'm talking about. Otherwise degrees and certifications would be useless and no one would strive to obtain them.

 

But in this case, I'm not trying to "show off" my degree or anything like that... I invested time and money into learning about PCs and the Windows OS. But even after that (and never knowing about Macs), I still prefer Mac OS when I'm at work and at home. The only point here that I'd like to retain, even if the rest of what I say gets picked apart by people who aren't happy about what I say, is this: That "presentation" is nothing but upset words and assorted images, and should not be held with any regard.

 

That's the bottom line, and if someone disagrees with that, then that should be your case in point, not something I said about myself.

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I can't help but find humor in the way Mac and PC users bicker like two siblings in the back seat on a long car ride. It's almost refreshing to see the battle between them rages on with all the intensity and ferver it has ever had; and even as I sit here perched to launch my own barrage into the fray, I can't help but feel a great unrest within myself knowing that I, like so many others, own both.

The point here, I believe, is not if the PC is better than the Mac. That is a question that can not be truthfully answered without the words: "In my opinion." Because the truth is that there is very little impurical data to suggest that either is truely better. Any objective person must submit that at this point in time, user preference is the only detirmining factor.

I do however feel compelled to comment on the way this video was produced and how biased and untruthful the information contained within it is. To think that at the end of the day someone sat back in their chair satisfied with what they had created seriously makes me want to vomit. Let me say that I am glad that individual doesn't work for me.

 

To start, your price comparison could not be more skewed! In your notebook comparison you have the Dell listed at 1/2 the price of the Mac (with a different processor I might add). I really think that you left out a "1" in your price. The 13.1 inch Dell laptop (comparable to the MacBook) STARTS at $1299.00 with a 1.5 GHz processor. Over $1800 with the 1.8GHz processor. Does that really compare to the 2.16GHz processor found in the MacBook for $1299.00? I own a MacBook Pro 17" and I DEFY you to find something from Dell that compares for under $4000!

As for Gateway, you couldn't give me one for free. I bought one from BestBuy in December and after 5 DOA machines, I left the store with the HP that I'm currently using to respond to this rediculous video.

 

With regard to your software comparison I have to aquiese to the fact that PC software is far more readily available than that for the Mac. Is that, however, a defining characteristic of superiority? It might be more indicative of smart purchasing; a barometer perhaps to guide the consumer to a purchase that may suit them best. Ford sells millions of cars in the US, true, but I'd much rather own a Porche. I don't think you'd be willing to jump on the argument that the Ford is a superior automobile because they sell more, would you? Or because there's more after-market add-ons?

While we're on the topic of software let me just say that anyone who thinks that Windows Vista is good should just jump off a tall building. And while they're at it, they should take all the idiots that think it isn't a complete duplicate of OSX with them!

 

In summation, if you're going to make such a bold statement, have the decency and temerity to do it in a muture fashion. Your video is just begging Mac users to come out of the woodwork to flame you. Your research is poor and your presentation is sarcastic, and in your attempt to redicule Mac users you've succeeded only in making yourself look like an idiot.

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:funny:

 

started out well, watson, but just ended up contradicting yourself.

 

In summation, if you're going to make such a bold statement, have the decency and temerity to do it in a muture fashion.

anyone who thinks that Windows Vista is good should just jump off a tall building. And while they're at it, they should take all the idiots that think it isn't a complete duplicate of OSX with them!

 

 

let me ask you...if vista is a complete duplicate of osx, then why is it not fully stable or secure?

Edited by badbinary

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While we're on the topic of software let me just say that anyone who thinks that Windows Vista is good should just jump off a tall building.

Let me just say, I think Vista is just fine. And no, I'm not gonna jump off a building.

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Badbinary, I have to agree with you, the Vista comment was immature. However, I must point out that I am not subject to the same journalistic integrity as the producer(s) of the video. I realize that you may be uncomfortable with that double standard, but it exists none the less.

 

I ask you to objectively watch that video and see if you can't agree with me even just a small amount.

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I ask you to objectively watch that video and see if you can't agree with me even just a small amount.

 

Another objectionable thing about the video was the assumption that we're all simpletons who don't know what we want. Most Mac users are well aware of what's on Windows and are also well aware of what they're "missing" by not using PCs. And we still want Macs. We know how much they cost, and we know we want them, and we feel they are worth it. We don't live in some Mac-only vacuum where we're unaware of what Windows has to offer.

 

I would not dream of questioning a hardcore gamer about why he spent so much money on a sweet (but pricey) gaming machine. He wants it, because he likes games. What else is there to say? Would I try to argue him out of spending a lot of money on such a machine? No. Would I tell him he's being sold a bridge because he spends a lot of money on this machine? Why? He knows what he wants and he's able to afford it. The fact that I have zero interest in games and generally think they're a time-waster (for me) isn't relevant. He wants a gaming machine, and it's his money that's being spent to get it. I wish him the best with it and hope he enjoys it.

 

Mac users spend their money on something they want. They want it, they can afford it, they get it. How are they being sold a bridge? They're getting what they are looking for, just like the gamer is.

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The reason that I made the video was in response to all of the Apple commercials. Those commercials are biased, and I wanted to make a response to show a different side of the issue. By and large, the assumptions of the Apple video are true. I have said so many times.

 

Windows has a lot of flaws no doubt, but millions and millions of people are continuing to buy and WILL continue to buy Windows for logical reasons. That is the underlying point behind my video, and since Microsoft nor any of the PC OEM's did anything, I decided to make a contrarian point of view.

 

I must admit that I had a little fun getting in a few jabs, but it was all meant in jest, in the same spirit as the Apple commercials. No more, no less.

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Yeah, it seems that there is a double standard. It's okay to bash a PC or Windows, but man! These mac-heads get all bent out of shape if you make fun of a mac.

:sandi:

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Cheng. Apple fanboys are some of the worst fanboys around, because they don't know when to shut up. The proof is in the pudding. Look a this thread. Over 6 pages of people arguing that Macs use nothing but PC parts and they aren't PCs, the fact that there is less software available for it, and the software that once made Mac so popular is now on the PC. The only thing Apple fanboys have to cling on is OSX, and that's not even that great an OS anymore. Linux has come a long way since 2001.

 

As for BS Watson: http://www.dell.com/content/products/produ...;l=en&s=dhs

 

Starting at $899 for a Widescreen 17". It may not be Core 2 Duo, but it's also about $300 cheaper. ;)

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Since now the hardware is all the same, a very good measurement is gross margin percentage between the major players. I left this out of the video, but here are the numbers for the latest quarter:

 

Apple 35%

Dell 17.8%

Gateway 6%

 

As has been commented before, since Apple's move to Intel processors and motherboards, the cost of good sold line is essentially the same. There are nuances, Apple does not have to pay Microsoft and Gateway and Dell do, so Gateway and Dell have lower margins. Additionally, Gateway sells primarily through the retail channel further reducing their gross margins.

 

But after you get down to it, there is only one conclusion. Apple marks up the SAME hardware a lot MORE than PC's.

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The reason that I made the video was in response to all of the Apple commercials. Those commercials are biased, and I wanted to make a response to show a different side of the issue.

 

Issue? What issue? They're SELLING them! Of course they're biased, they designed it, built it, and are now marketing it.

 

Let me make one issue very clear too. I'm not a Mac "fanboy". I own a PC and continue to build custom systems. I choose to use a Mac, because "in my opinion" it's just better, stable, easier, and all the things those "biased" commercials say they are. I like that in a machine... out of the box perfect. Not out of the box and spend an hour removing AOL, Napster, Music Match Juke Box, MSN Explorer, Microsoft Works (no it doesn't), Free Offers from HP (or Dell, gateway, acer) plug in the peripherals and go searching for the updated digitally signed drivers, and last but not least (my personal favorite) "Windows Live has noticed that Internet Explorer is trying to access the Internet. Would you like to allow it to continue?"

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Cheng. Apple fanboys are some of the worst fanboys around, because they don't know when to shut up.

And of course 100% of the posts on this thread are made by Apple users! Of course! And there aren't any PC users who go out of their ways to insult Macs or Mac users. It never happens.

 

The dynamic between Mac vs PC is always going to be different, because there are so many PC users out there compared to Mac users. Mac users are far more likely to encounter a PC geek who will tell them that "Macs suck" or that they don't know their own minds when they choose a Mac. So yeah, we're fed up with it, because there are a lot of you, and you don't always keep silent, do you?

 

And you'll notice in my posts that I don't attack Windows or Windows users. I don't tell you that you're a simpleton who doesn't know what you want, or that the folks at Redmond must do the thinking for you. I don't say that Windows is a horrible operating system. But yet I'm told that Apple does the thinking for me and that I'm ignorant because I dare to prefer a different operating system.

 

I find it ironic that we're being told that "we don't know when to shut up" just because we dare to say something. I'm sure you'd prefer it if this thread only had posts by Windows fanboys who slapped each other on the back, but so far PC Pitstop hasn't set up a way to filter out dissenting opinions on their message board.

 

BS Watson wrote:

 

Issue? What issue? They're SELLING them! Of course they're biased, they designed it, built it, and are now marketing it.

Yeah, exactly! Every advertiser is biased about their product. They think it's better than the competition. Making ads that reflect that is the most natural thing to do.

 

What is PC Pitstop selling, by the way?

Edited by elvers

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products for pc's ;)

 

And I'm sure that the Windows userbase (and all of PC Pitstop's traffic) is just going to wither away to nothing, because of a few goofy, tongue-in-cheek Mac ads! :rofl2:

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and i'm sure the mac userbase will just wither away to nothing because of a goofy, tongue-in-cheek comparison. :rolleyes:

 

i think that's exactly the point that brandon is trying to make because that is exactly the attitude the mac users who have posted in here have towards this. most of us are just doing what brandon's avatar is doing to the 30,000 word essays of responses here.

Edited by badbinary

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and i'm sure the mac userbase will just wither away to nothing because of a goofy, tongue-in-cheek comparison. :rolleyes:

 

 

If you want to make something obviously funny and tongue-in-cheek, it needs to be actually funny. I've seen some pretty funny Mac vs. PC ads where the Macs were made fun of—and they were funny. I laughed. It's not like it can't be done. PC Pitstop did not succeed in doing this with their video, however.

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did i say funny? no, i think the word was goofy. goofy, to me, is not the same as funny.

 

has it really gotten to the point of petty semantics?

Edited by badbinary

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