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Vista Migration - Video Report


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i'm sorry, but i can't help but be disappointed. the complaint about uac can definitely be argued, but the bottom line for me is this: most windows users NEED someone/something (in this case, uac) to hold their hand. proof of this is the spyware/malware forum

 

also, are you seriously blaming microsoft for not having good drivers for your printer? unless it's a microsoft printer (which they don't make), they're not responsible for making a driver for it.

 

this is a common complaint for new linux users. they then blame linux for not having drivers for their device. unfortunately, the fact is that some companies drag their feet in creating drivers (in the case of linux, many companies don't make them at all).

 

in all, that was way over-simplistic, even for the casual computer user; although you did include a nice photograph of birds in flight.

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Hey BB,

 

Welcome Back! I certainly agree that some sort of security would be extremely beneficial to the entire Windows community. The problem in this case is not that it exists but in its implementation. I was not exaggerating that my screen was turning black and I could not do anything else until I hit cancel or allow. It iis way too intrusive. There are many ways to develop security without being so intrusive.

 

This is a migration report. That means that everything was working great beforehand, and that is the point of relativity. So yes, I am blaming Microsoft for my driver not working right. The printer is working great under XP, and why doesn't it work great under Vista? Plus no error messages or anything.

 

Thanks, I liked the photo of the birds too. :.)

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i agree that uac may be too intrusive for the more advanced computer users, but for the people that keep finding themselves in the spyware/malware forum, it's EXACTLY what they need. i think the biggest downfall with uac is that there aren't more options to customize how uac behaves.

 

next time, you should use a photo of penguins. :P

Edited by badbinary
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Actually, BB, I don't agree. If you get into the habit of clicking Cancel and Allow 7-8 times a day, you just might accidentally hit Allow for a true malware. The same as the Apple commercial, where PC guy is just saying Allow all the time. The danger warning should only come up when it really thinks there is a dangerous situation. Certainly there are some basic technologies that would allow me to automatically open WinRAR each and every time without getting a warning.

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yes, that is absolutely true. perhaps they could simply implement a table that uac will check to see if the program is safe or not. this table, however, will need to be locked up as tight as possible or it'll be just another way for spyware/malware/viruses/etc. to circumvent the security.

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interesting thread, cancel or allow, this still leaves the fate of the entire operating system in the user's hands :geezer:

 

for some, how will they know what to allow or disallow, but then again there intentions are simple,they want to run an application, who's to say what could happen!

 

in reality we know thousands have disabled this security feature because of its annoyance which takes windows back where it started from.

 

bb, this is always a major ordeal when newbies try linux, they never read the documentation before installing the operating system, i call it a windows no read disease, yep ! i say this because if they complain about the printer not working this means they did not read the documentation or the printer compatibilty list ;)

 

that will only happen to a windows user because everything is next ok next, next, finish, during all this clicking they didn't even read the license agreement to what ever was installed.

 

im cured :lol:

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About reading the instructions, you're right. It's awkward to have a manual or help file that is actually helpful. That definitely takes some getting used to.

 

The cool thing that I like about Suse, is that when you install it, you pretty much install most of the software you would need. You don't need to spend two hours doing updates and then another two hours installing office applications and whatever. Most of the hardware I have on my linux box is recognized better than in Windows. It would be nice if Vista could do this as well.

 

Great job on the video, Rob. These add a great value to PC Pitstop.

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I have had problems with my network printer too. It turns out that while HP is willing to sell me ink cartridges and all kinds of accessories for my Oficejet 5110, they are not planning to write a Vista diver for my printer and of course the XP driver will not function in Vista for some reason (HP wnts to sell more printers and Bill must have added some of their stock to his portfolio somewhere along the line). So I either buy a new printer or migrate back to XP or hack out a new driver for myself.

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".....It turns out that while HP is willing to sell me ink cartridges and all kinds of accessories for my Oficejet 5110, they are not planning to write a Vista diver for my printer......."

 

I believe PJWildman was saying that HP (not Microsoft) was not planning on writing a Vista compatible driver an that due to that he would have to revert back to HP or purchase a new printer.

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i'm sorry, but i can't help but be disappointed. the complaint about uac can definitely be argued, but the bottom line for me is this: most windows users NEED someone/something (in this case, uac) to hold their hand. proof of this is the spyware/malware forum

 

also, are you seriously blaming microsoft for not having good drivers for your printer? unless it's a microsoft printer (which they don't make), they're not responsible for making a driver for it.

 

this is a common complaint for new linux users. they then blame linux for not having drivers for their device. unfortunately, the fact is that some companies drag their feet in creating drivers (in the case of linux, many companies don't make them at all).

 

in all, that was way over-simplistic, even for the casual computer user; although you did include a nice photograph of birds in flight.

 

I'm in the camp that UAC is a waste of time. For unexperienced users who try to install a program or open a file, they don't know if the file is safe or not anyway, so asking if they want to allow or deny is pointless. As has been said, its only a matter of time before they quit paying attention to it anyway.

 

The problem I have with disabling UAC is that I get "not enough drive space" errors when trying to install programs like Adobe Acrobat 8 with UAC disabled. What's worse is that enabling or disabling UAC requires a reboot. Silly design, me thinks.

 

The video states that there is no way to control the size of the restore points on Vista. That's not true. It can be controlled in 1% increments or completely turned off. Granted, its not the easiest thing to find, but then nothing really is on Vista except for your files (which I happen to know where they are without Vista search using all of my RAM to find for me). People who store 1000s of files on their computer usually have an organized system for doing so? Maybe its just me though.

 

I don't know for sure what the problem is with his HP printer, as my Canon MP830 worked with Vista drivers (that Vista told me needed to be installed before using it, and found without any help from me or a CD) and even through our network. But what Vista did is make my FAX the default printer. Might want to check that the printer is set to default in control panel.

Edited by dark41
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hp is giving very shoddy driver support for vista. i will never again buy another hp product.

 

Both my HP printers are 100% supported. It took about a month for full drivers to become available.

 

Personally I think they should do the same thing for windows that they do for Linux/Unix, that is create a unified driver and application that supports 1500+ different printer models.

 

The hpijs driver and hplip created by HP for the open source community supports around 1500 printers. ;)

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Vista is horrible! I'm adept at using a PC and Vista is not at all intuitive. What was Mr. Gates thinking when his team overhauled XP?

 

The icons are different, the management is different, it was even difficult to figure out how to restart or shut down.

 

Wireless is the last to load and it seems unable to auto find what available. You have to fiddle with settings and you will not get it right. Programs get blocked and even if you say dont block at startup, its still blocked.

 

Get this Vista junk off my laptop and give me back XP.

 

ndl. :cr@sh:

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Windows Vista had me pulling my hair out :pullhair: until I remembered one thing, today's computers can take care of themselves when it comes to peripherals. When the HP site said that they would NEVER have a compatible driver for my new Deskjet F380 All-in-one that I just bought with my new HP Pavillion 1730 I got mad. I simply plugged the printer cable into the USB port and told it to work or else. Then, when the scanner was going to give me problems because there was no driver support to make it work I went out to the HP site and found out that as long as I can get a program to accept a TWAIN source I've got it made. Not only will Paint do this but so will Paintshop Pro. You have to fuss a bit with them but it works. The only lame part about not having a driver for my printer is that I have no way of telling when the ink is running low.....no graphic is available if there is nothing keeping track of the ink levels.

 

The next chore was to see if I could make an external floppy drive work with the miserable program. Yep...no driver needed, just plug it into the USB port. Then it was an external CD-G burner for my karaoke discs. If I don't back them up I'm stupid. It's too much of an investment to let the originals wear out. All I had to do was plug it into the USB port and install the program that I need to make the CD-G's.

 

Now if AOL would just FIX it's ongoing problem with Easy Designer so that those of us who have websites dependant upon it could get into our sites, I would be able to find out if I can use Vista to get into my web pages or whether I will still have to keep my old computer with Win2000 around just to maintain my website!!!!! :cr@sh:

 

The rest of the stuff in Vista is a waste. If you are a home user or a small business user who doesn't NEED all the safety bells and whistles, Vista slows you down.

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  • 2 weeks later...

"ndlicht: Vista Migration - Video Report (Tech Talk) (Thu, 12 Apr 2007 02:39:00 GMT)

Vista is horrible! I'm adept at using a PC and Vista is not at all intuitive. What was Mr. Gates thinking when his team overhauled XP?

 

The icons are different, the management is different, it was even difficult to figure out how to restart or shut down.

 

Wireless is the last to load and it seems unable to auto find what available. You have to fiddle with settings and you will not get it right. Programs get blocked and even if you say dont block at startup, its still blocked.

 

Get this Vista junk off my laptop and give me back XP."

 

Well, ITS A NEW OS!! Of course its different, I'll bet you that a person who has used MS-DOS for his entire life would think XP was horrible, as for lags, your system just isn't fit to run vista on. Its not the OS's problem, its your problem.

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Well, ITS A NEW OS!! Of course its different, I'll bet you that a person who has used MS-DOS for his entire life would think XP was horrible, as for lags, your system just isn't fit to run vista on. Its not the OS's problem, its your problem.

 

That's not exactly true. Vista is designed to use the resources it has available. A clean install on a machine with 1gig of RAM will use roughly 300mbs of RAM to run (Windows desktop search, etc.), where a system with 2gigs of RAM will use roughly 600mbs. So roughly 30% of your memory is wasted on the OS, no matter how much or how little you have.

 

My specs:

Motherboard-GA 965P DQ6

[email protected]

RAM-2x1g Crucial Ballistix PC6400

Video-Leadtek PX7900 GTX TDH Extreme

Hard Drive-2x250gig Seagate SATAII (RAID 0)

the rest of my components aren't really relevant to the speed of the OS, but as anyone can see this is a pretty high end system

 

I still get lag and most apps run slower than they did on XP. The problem is that Vista is a bloated OS with many features that are worthless to the average user. MS has to understand the idea that just because technology gets faster and bigger, doesn't mean that the OS has to use it all. Its the same with every manufacturer's Internet Security Suite. They slow down machines and connections up to 50%. This is a ridiculous trend that has to stop to please the bulk of users.

 

The fix for lag is to turn off search, gadgets, and set system restore to a low percentage (I use 1% because I have so much HD space). While this doesn't do much to improve the speed of apps, it does cut the lag down considerably.

 

I also disable UAC and Windows Defender as they're annoying and useless as far as I'm concerned.

 

While these tricks can get you running Vista more efficiently, they'll do nothing to address the driver issues that apps/games/hardware are having now. Deleting the HAL from Vista was a major step backwards at this point in time. God help you if you depend on OpenGL apps for a living.

 

Keep in mind that MS's next OS will have the file system that was originally planned to be in Vista. This means that all the software that you buy to work with Vista will not work with the new OS.

 

As a system builder who runs his own computer business, my advice is to save your $ until the next MS operating system and see if that's not more worth your hard earned dollars. :)

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I also disable UAC and Windows Defender as they're annoying and useless as far as I'm concerned.

yup they sure are.

 

that is if you think viruses, malware, spyware, and trojans are programs that SHOULD be on your computer.

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My advice is always never take the advice of people who recommend disabling security measures.

Reading comprehension problem? I didn't recommend anyone turn off any security measures. I said that I turn off MS's "so called" security measures on my own system. I recommended that users turn off Windows Desktop Search, Gadgets, and reduce system restore to a realistic percentage (the default is 15%) to help reduce lag on Vista.

 

yup they sure are.

 

that is if you think viruses, malware, spyware, and trojans are programs that SHOULD be on your computer.

 

I've read your posts on other topics and while you're an avid fan of UAC, you have yet to explain how it protects anything. Maybe that's because you know full well that all it does is pop up a window?

 

The truth is that UAC doesn't stop you from installing anything on your computer. It simply pops up a window asking if you're sure you want to install every program that uses a .exe. If a user doesn't know the difference between malware and a legitimate program, UAC sure isn't going to protect them because it doesn't either. XP does the same thing unless you check the box saying "do not ask...". If you really think UAC is going to stop viruses from email or web page scripts from installing on your computer, you'll soon find out you're wrong, as many other Vista users already have.

 

Neither UAC nor Windows Defender stopped my son from getting a mass of trojans and malware by clicking on a link in MSN Messenger. UAC didn't ask if it should install them either.

 

The only malware I've had on my computer in the past 2 years is malware that I've intentionally installed myself. I've installed several types of malware programs on one of my Vista computers purposely to test Windows Defender. It didn't find any of them. And this is why I now choose to disable it on my system. MS doesn't make AV/spyware programs for a good reason.

 

We remove viruses, malware, spyware, trojans and worms from customers' computers every week and Vista is no safer than any other OS without a good AV and spyware program, with or without UAC and Windows Defender.

 

Your best bet to prevent spyware/malware infections and to get rid of the ones you already have from relying upon Vista to protect you, is a good spyware program like CounterSpy 2 or AVG Anti-spyware 7.5 (used to be Ewido). I recommend AVG's new Internet Security Suite 7.5 for complete protection on Vista. It uses less resources and protects better than Norton, Kaspersky, McAfee and Zone Alarm. Its also a bit cheaper for a 2 year license than any of these other products. All AVG AV/spyware/firewall products have fully functional trial versions.

 

But then I'm just as happy if you don't take my advice, since I make a very good living off people who don't. :)

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why on earth would you give your son an administrator account?

 

quite frankly, i disagree a bit with your view of the computer world. while many people will just click yes no matter what, a large portion of the people will wonder if that is a program they actually tried to run.

 

people like you do a grand disservice to the public by just saying disable it. if you took 10 minutes to educate them on why and how it is important, then maybe you would truly help them out.

 

vista is, out of the box, much safer than any other windows operating system. it's the users who cripple it that are the problem. windows defender is okay, it's not great, i also use spybot. but then again, it's NEVER good advice to only use one spyware/malware program.

 

 

 

The truth is that UAC doesn't stop you from installing anything on your computer. It simply pops up a window asking if you're sure you want to install every program that uses a .exe.

that is only half-true. uac will also pop up any time kernel access is needed. this means that using uac properly will prevent any program, malware, virus, etc, from accessing the kernel, which means the worst you will ever have to do is remove a user profile from the system.

 

this is also true if you don't give everyone admin accounts and use good policies for those user accounts. if this is done, then uac truly wouldn't be needed.

Edited by badbinary
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