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mattrmiller

Vista: Not an XP Replacement

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Most of the basic configurations sold by PC makers right now do not meet the hardware requirements for Vista

Most "BASIC" computers dont really run XP very well. ie: 256mb ram :rofl2:

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Full article available at http://pcpitstop.com/news/rob/rcheng0609.asp

 

Whilst I fully endorse the subject of your article, I have to comment on the emphasis you have put. My notebook is now nearing a year old, and I have now been using Windows Vista for over a month.

 

Although still in beta stages, the system is particularly stable... especially the RC1 build which feels faster than Windows XP installed on this same machine.

 

I work as a developer and spend my evenings twiddling in 3D, and would therefore notice any drastic performance decrease.

 

It is very true that Windows Vista can be assimilated to a 'pig' when compared to an ant like Windows XP, the requirements are indeed heavy... but the over all resource management is far more efficient and fine grained than ever before.

 

Likewise I still agree with you in that the normal everyday user should stay away from Windows Vista until it stabilizes further, maybe close to a year from now... though personally the only times my vista crashes is when I try to install some unsupported/incompatible software. Otherwise, it is a true gem!

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[/b]Most people are forgetting the best versions out of all the new releases will be the 64-bit professional releases. The one item I see people forgetting is that Windows XP is only 32-bit and since Windows Vista is not out of it's BETA stages there is no reason to even buy it. When they released 64-bit chips BEFORE a true NON-beta 64-bit Windows it was too soon because there was no reason to buy a 64-bit chip. Now that is all you find. I will NOT buy a new computer until Windows Vista comes out in the professional form of a true 64-bit operating system. You are right to tell people to wait. I never did understand why people want Beta crap unless they like to test or they are bored. There is NO point to Beta software being on a computer where thee is no true support yet worldwide either for all the products that need 64-bit Vista compatible drivers anyways.

 

Ernie

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I have tested Vista beta 1 beta 2, pre RC1, and RC1 on a variety of hardware, and in virtual machines.

 

The betas were pretty bad, and I considered them to be complete utter garbage.

 

The pre-RC1, and now the RC1 are much better and actually worth checking out, here are my experiences so far.

 

Better then the minimum requirements..............First machine I tested on has an Athlon XP 1800 processor, 512 DRR, 64 meg video card. Show stopper, it was such a pig it struggled to run much of the included multimedia software at acceptable performance levels, no Aero glass theme. Installed a 128 meg video card, with little to no improvement. This same machine with 256mb of ram, and a 32mb video card runs 3D desktops in other operating systems smoothly and without a hiccup.

 

Next was in vmware. Obviously no aero glass theme in vmware, but as a basic web, email, office machine it performed very well The VM server is an Athlon 64 X2 an2 4200+ 256 meg video card and 1 gig of ram.

 

Final configurations were on one machine with variations to see how it would work.

 

Starting Specs were

 

Athlon 64 3200+

1 gig Dual Channel DDR 400

16x DVD drive

hauppauge PVR 150

Nvidia GeForce 5900 Ultra 256 mb

 

With those specs Vista RC1 runs perfectly flawlessly and the way an operating system should perform.

 

It boots extremely fast

 

Applications load very quickly

 

Aero Glass 3D theme works

 

Multimedia applications work great as do all other apps shipped with the system

 

Loading software from disks and DVD's proved troublesome. After waiting 30 minutes for the first of 4 CD's from quake4 I gave up and aborted the installation.

 

Nero was a no go as were many other applications.

 

The application compatibility problems are to be expected with any new operating system, so I don't see this as a huge issue, although others will cry like babies denied a loli pop in a candy store....... :lol:

 

With the same machine, but using a Nvidia GeForce MX 4000 128mb the Aero Glass theme was a no go, but all other features worked just fine, this surprised me, because while the card isn't a rocket ship, it easily runs 3D desktops in other operating systems without a hiccup.

 

Reducing the Ram to 512, with that video card, made the system feel like a row boat with a 2000 pound anchor attached, things started to slow down and and the processor load went up far too much for basic things like "moving the mouse" :lol:

 

All in all, I think Vista a great improvement over XP, and while not a fan of Microsoft products, I could live with using Vista if I had to.

 

Other things that concern me.

 

The first and default user is an "administrator" this is a huge mistake and will eventually lead to the same security spyware, malware problems that have plagued Microsoft operating systems for years, I truly thought they were going to stop doing this, but obviously they have not learned their lesson yet. At least limited user accounts do function far better then any other Microsoft Operating system, but after 7 years of development I would have thought they could have figured out how to implement the most basic and effective security measure available. Sad that all the money, and developers they have, this is beyond their ability and obviously the logic of it escapes them.

 

All in all, most of the "new" computers will handle Vista just fine minus the Aero Glass theme. I don't think that is a terrible thing as Aero doesn't really have much to offer compared to other 3D desktops on other operating systems. When I say "new computers" I don't mean the stuff they are discounting and trying to push out of the stores now, I mean new systems with Conroe and Athlon X2 processors with 1 gig of ram. The video requirements actually shouldn't be an issue either when it comes to new computers, as people buy them according to their requirements, office and desktop users don't need the power a gamer needs, and the onboard video cards will do just fine for daily computing.

 

Software compatibility issues aside, and some pretty tough hardware requirements it is a decent operating system, and I am sure they will work out a few more bugs before the final release is made available.

 

The earliest adopters will need some help, of course like any release of any operating system changes confuse some people, those people will complain the loudest, folks who like new things and are ready for a change will also complain as they won't get as much as they expected............never please them all :lol: Then there are the Microsoft can do no wrong folks who will claim it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

I recommend any of our members who has availability to the Release Candidates start using it on a test machines when it is released ( and I believe that will be sooner then we all think) there will be a lot of people coming looking for help.

 

Grab a copy install it, and start using it.

Edited by Bruce

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It is indeed out of beta ernie.

 

It is now in Release Candidate 1. Release candiates are usually very, very close to the final product.

 

XP does indeed have a 64 bit version ;)

 

I haven't tested the Vista 64 bit release candidate, but will soon. Most of the reports I see, say it requires more memory the 32 bit version.

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It is indeed out of beta ernie.

 

It is now in Release Candidate 1. Release candiates are usually very, very close to the final product.

 

XP does indeed have a 64 bit version ;)

 

I haven't tested the Vista 64 bit release candidate, but will soon. Most of the reports I see, say it requires more memory the 32 bit version.

 

Testing both XP64 and Vista, There is more stability in favor of Vista.

Serious issues with latest Live Messenger so I would pass on the download of it. Beta driver for NVIDIA is also needing some work. Since I use Dual View, I keep it. Hope Vista can support it without the driver.

 

I think XP64 is great but because it was sold on an "OEM" basis only, it's support cycle will be much shorter. Driver support is much better but isn't moving forward as fast as Vista. Why provide driver support for an OEM when you have a shiny new O/S due out that you must write drivers for.

 

A few thought, more to come later

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Hi everybody,

 

A couple of questions...

 

1) With each successive realease of Microsoft OS products starting with DOS 1.1 back in the early 80's it seems that with each successive release there is an erosion of System Administration powers.

 

Today, in XP, there are often times that I wish to delete a file where the OS is saying I don't have permission to do this. XP in most instances will give a program or even a rogue program more power over the system than the System Administrator has.

 

I've been messing with this stuff for over 35 years, I know OS internals for several OS's and I think I have the ability to know what files are necessary. Most of the time it is a data file. Then there are files like Windows Media Player... Every try to delete one of those? You delete it and it keeps comming back.

 

This does not happen in UNIX. For me XP is a joke when it comes to implementing Sys Admin because you really do not have any power.

 

2) How does Vista handle licensing information, does it scan every file to see if there is a license and what about products that do not need it?

 

3) We've all seen how putrid XP is with regard to security, spyware, etc. XP can't remember the settings that I have to reset every day over and over to tell Explorer NOT to display the Artist, Duration etc. of my music files.

 

No matter how many times I tell it to APPLY TO ALL FOLDERS with the new settings it forgets when the machine reboots.

 

In all the years I have watched Microsoft put out products I have NEVER seen them put out a robust product yet. XP is based on a legacy of sloppy, inconsistent design standards ... does anyone think that Vista will be any better?

 

regards,

wizzie

 

PS ... I am inclined to disregard all of the "Vista Hype" for the simple reason that I believe that under the hood it is still a mass of confusion.

 

Case in point...

Does Vista still have letter drives like C:, D:, E: etc?, which incidentally, date back to CP/M a 1970's Operating System?

 

Does Vista still have a C:\Windows catch all directory complete with .ini files, screen jpg's etc?

 

Does Vista still have this ridiculous "Safe Mode".

A good robust OS does not need a "Safe Mode"!

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Shogan,

 

I hope it didn't sound like I was knocking it, because I wasn't. In fact I find it a huge improvement over all previous versions of windows.

 

The RC1 candidate is actually pretty damn good, provided you have the hardware to run it.

 

Like I said, most "new" computers with the latest processors will do just fine with it.

 

I seriously recommend folks who have the availability grab it and give it a good work out, but don't just complain when things don't work properly, report the issue to Microsoft. That is the whole idea behind using these Release Candidates.

 

While not huge fan of Microsoft, I am certainly doing my part to help them release the best operating system they can by reporting any problems I discover because the more secure it is, and the smoother the OS works the better off we all are. To be honest I have reported a couple bugs and made some suggestions, but overall it works pretty damn good.

 

I don't consider driver issues "bugs" because unlike most people "I" understand that Microsoft does not create drivers, they never did, hardware manufacturers do that and and when they work Microsoft adopts the drivers.

 

For folks who have driver issue's, start shooting emails off to the hardware vendors asking for support for your hardware.

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No, I didn't think you were knocking it at all. I appreciate the info you included above. I was just getting ready to try installing COD2 when I got sidetracked with trying to install nvidia raid with the Asus A8b32 board. So far I can't get the Vista install to accept the drivers it's asking for. It sees them, they are the ones provided by nVidia for Vista 64, but it doesn't install them for some reason. I'll keep plinking around with stuff. Again thanks for the info. :tup: The point in the OS install that asks you for raid drivers is certainly an improvement. Gives you a chance to browse to where you want to install from. Shows all drives, cds, dvd, floppy, external drives. Much easier that way now but it appears the drivers aren't right yet.

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Give nvidia time, they are trying to hit a moving target. They have so far done pretty well with keeping up with video drivers, Beta 2, pre-RC1 and RC1 were all pretty close to each other so nvidia has been working hard to keep up.

 

In the mean might I suggest you install skipping the raid configuration, or go to the nvidia forums and see if they have some work arounds, you will find that their forums are extremely good and their driver developers frequent there often and ask for information about the problems so they can straighten them out.

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I don't think that Vista is a pig, I'm running Vista build 5536 on a P4 2.8 GHz with 512MB of RAM. The system can become unstable at times, but generally speaking, the OS and very sable even with the hareware I have (I know I need to throw Intel in the trash and get AMD, I just don't have the money right now).

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vista will appear to be a "pig" but its better hard coding should make it alot more efficient, plus all the fancy 3d stuff will be on the GPU side so that should help some too.

this is an upgrade that has to last for the next 5+ years so naturally its going to have higher hardware requirements and it comes down to what people need and want.

 

i read in several articles claiming vista will ship with both 32 & 64 bit on seperate dvd's except for the vista starter edition and that so far 64 bit edition has no performance increases

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Now, Microsoft is saying that you can get by with as little as 512MB of system memory and just 64MB of video memory, as long as you are using a video resolution of 1280x1024 or less.

Yeeepeeee I can run Vista as long as I DONT PLAY GAMES XP Will not die like Win9x as long as users "Dont buy Vista Just for spending $$$ for humungous hardware specs"

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Well folks I am just an ordinary 'out there' PC user and if MS proceeds with Vista, I (and many others I suspect) will just have to make the move to linux. I have been considering it for a while now but MS seems to be almost forcing me out - don't they realise that there are millions of users out there who just want to do the basics and do not need some super collossal over-engineered piece of junk which no-one really understands?

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Not sure why you would feel pressed Bates. They aren't forcing you to switch from XP. Not yet anyway. I've been using it for the weekend and kinda like it. Was glad to see Bruce thought more of it than he does XP. That gives me some hope as I'm not too swift when it comes to software. I've tried Linux and while I'm sure I'll try it again, it was a little beyond me. Got lots of help from Bruce and the others on our Linux forum though.

 

Still haven't tried to run and play COD 2. It's supposed to be ok on the 64bit Vista. I'll give it a go here in a while. Anyone else try this?

 

Bruce, I did give up on the Raid. I'll wait a week and see what I can find. So far I see lots of people having trouble with it and not many answers. I'll give it some time. BTW, thanks for the help.

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Shogan,

 

Like any new operating system, drivers are always the issue in the beginning. Especially when the Operating system hasn't even been RTM yet (Released To Manufacturers)

 

Nvidia is doing a decent job of keeping up as far as the video drivers go, I would imagine it won't be long and the RAID drivers will be working completely.

 

In the mean time thats no reason not to try the OS out. You certainly don't need raid just use an operating system ;)

 

Batesrich,

 

No one is pressuring you to buy anything, not unless you consider advertising pressure :lol: and the advertising hasn't even begun yet :lol:

 

Linux is certainly a viable option and it has been my sole operating system of choice for years now.

 

When the testing is done with Vista that will be the end of my windows use until the next operating system is released.

 

I certainly wouldn't pay Microsoft to use their operating systems. So when I am done testing Vista my hard drives won't see windows again for another 7 years when the next one goes beta :lol:

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yup... the next M$ o.s. is already in the works, code named vienna, read up about it here

http://www.informationweek.com/story/showA...cleID=192501131

 

Bruce, here's a read on what M$ has for admin privilages for Vista

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsvi...ity/uacppr.mspx

Edited by Joe C

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Does Vista still have this ridiculous "Safe Mode".

A good robust OS does not need a "Safe Mode"!

 

Your kidding right? Almost every OS has some kind of "safemode" type environment. Its a must any time you have a GUI or you lose too much control. Even linux/Unix has different startup environments for troubleshooting.

 

Eric

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From what I hear faster machines will run Vista better than XP eventually. RC1 runs pretty good. I've not played with it too much in the last week. What you need is a decent amount of RAM and a real DX9 3d card thats not integrated. If you have that then it should run fairly well. Where your getting screwed performancewise is if your running a budget system or the majority of the laptops. I wouldn't even run XP with 512MB.

Edited by ewitte

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From what I hear faster machines will run Vista better than XP eventually. RC1 runs pretty good. I've not played with it too much in the last week. What you need is a decent amount of RAM and a real DX9 3d card thats not integrated. If you have that then it should run fairly well. Where your getting screwed performancewise is if your running a budget system or the majority of the laptops. I wouldn't even run XP with 512MB.

 

i agree, vista's primary operation is being geared towards games, MS is even repackaging and attempting to shelve on stores pc titles in a similar fashion to how console games are, their doing alot to make gaming more seamless and easier for the user.

 

dx10 itself is allegedly running up to 7x's faster than previous dx's so i dont doubt upcomming dx10 games will be amazingly fast

 

i think in a year or two following vistas release, many will change their ideas on keeping xp and seeing vista as a "pig" 512 mb's of ram in 2 years from now will seem like 64mb's of ram today.

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Well folks I am just an ordinary 'out there' PC user and if MS proceeds with Vista, I (and many others I suspect) will just have to make the move to linux.

Money speaks for all eh?

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im still waiting, been waiting and already tired :dead-horse:

 

i see no real reason to switch over "yet" not what i expected for 400 bucks

 

atleast it has good looks, if that helps any :shrug:

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