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Gaza; The Muslim Alamo


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now there is an intelligent response... way to keep on subject. anything to deflect.. thats your MO...

 

No worries.. .I will leave this thread. any real questions that has been posed to you have been very obviously deflected.

 

No worries.. keep on deflecting :laughing: Just dont think everyone doesnt see it just cause they dont respond

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Scriptwriters please note; thread- assassin falls on his sword ( again) in scene #232. :lol:

 

Unofficial sanctions begin ( economic terrorism designed as illegal collective punishment)

 

Tax authorities on Sunday seized some 31 containers at the Ashdod port on the suspicion they were sent as part of a scheme to channel funds to Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

 

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/684576.html

Edited by moon
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You demonstrated the problem with the peace talks in your post, everyone is willing to negotiate as long as Israel comes out the winner. It is unthinkable to many westerners to give into Palestinian request but that would involve some sort of admission of wrong doing.

 

recognising the right for Israel to exist does not pronounce them a winner nor does it recognise any borders outside of the UN's defined borders for Israel. It simply recognises them as a legitimate country in the region.

 

If they do not do this they will never get their state or their funding back. To recognise a state does not indicate you must have diplomatic relations with them. It does not mean you accept their behavior or their land grabs. It simply means you recognise them as a legitimate country.

 

You agree with economic terrorism as a tool undermine democracy.

 

not democracy, terrorism

Edited by one2gamble
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not democracy, terrorism

I say again, Hamas has maintained a self-imposed ceasefire since August 2004. Are you interested in knowing how many Palestinians the Israelis have murdered since August 2004 ? I say 'murdered' because they have been killed in their own territory .

 

You concede that it is economic terrorism but you fail to justify it. Israel has refused to recognise a Palestinian State. Why should the Palestinians recognise an Israeli State ? Because Israel is holding the power of life or death over them ?

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There are a lot of deadly factions out there. Islamic Jihad are not Hamas. You might as well blame Hamas for al-Quada.

 

 

you don't seriously think that israel will make all the concessions here, do you moon?

Withdrawal is not a concession. Israel is the aggressor, Israel is the occupier, respect the law, let Israel unilaterally withdraw.

 

 

But Mr Abbas accused Israel of undermining the peace process. "Ariel Sharon... declared an open battle against the Palestinian people, and proceeded to systematically destroy the PA's institutions and frameworks," he said.

 

"During this period, the racist separation wall was built and settlement construction in the West Bank was doubled. Sharon introduced an iron fist policy against the Palestinian people."

 

Mr Abbas called on the "civilised world" to force Israel back to negotiations.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1713664,00.html

And that's the reward for accepting Israel's occupation ? You'd have to be two short of a pair, I'm sure you'll agree.

 

EDIT; Interesting question; If the Israelis are not going to hand over revenues to the Palestinian government then why should people keep paying revenues ?

Mr Abbas said on Sunday the PA was in a "real financial crisis" after Israel said it would stop collecting customs revenues on the Palestinians' behalf.

 

"The pressures have begun and the support and the aid started to decrease," he said.

 

 

Former US President Jimmy Carter, who led a team to observe the recent election, criticised Israel's actions, which he said would present "significant obstacles" to an effective PA government.

 

Writing in the Washington Post, Mr Carter reprised US news reports - denied last week - that the US and Israel have colluded in an effort to disrupt Hamas' accession to power.

 

"The likely results will be to alienate the already oppressed and innocent Palestinian, to incite violence, and to increase the domestic influence and international esteem of Hamas," he wrote.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4731058.stm

Edited by moon
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You know what I think is cool? This is the first time I've referred to the state of Palestine without quotation marks. I think that means I'm optimistic for the future.

 

I

Edited by Iain
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I say again, Hamas has maintained a self-imposed ceasefire since August 2004. Are you interested in knowing how many Palestinians the Israelis have murdered since August 2004 ? I say 'murdered' because they have been killed in their own territory .

 

You concede that it is economic terrorism but you fail to justify it. Israel has refused to recognise a Palestinian State. Why should the Palestinians recognise an Israeli State ? Because Israel is holding the power of life or death over them ?

 

1. since 2004...big deal. They wont renounce their actions or terrorism

2. Israel doesnt have the power to create a palestinian state

3. Palestinians should recognise a Israeli state because it is in fact a state and the only way they will ever become one is if they recognise them as a state.

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1. since 2004...big deal. They wont renounce their actions or terrorism

Lol ! The Israelis haven't killed any Palestinians since yesterday.

 

2. Israel doesnt have the power to create a palestinian state

America will support any and every Israeli intransigence.

 

3. Palestinians should recognise a Israeli state because it is in fact a state and the only way they will ever become one is if they recognise them as a state.

Hamas have said that they will recognise Israel when Israel withdraws. That's reasonable. Israel must withdraw in order for there to be Palestinian State so the two recognitions could happen simultaneously. Israel just has to give up its billions of American dollar investments in illegal settlements. That's the bottom line, very little to do with who recognises who or who moves first.

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Its not reasonable to have your charter say one thing and your lips say another (the pen is mightier than the sword kind of thing).

 

Israeli incursions play no bearing on whether or not Hamas should recognise an Israeli state. Recognise them as a state, with their legally defined UN borders and things will progress towards a palestinian state. Once that happens then Israeli occupation of palestinian lands will be viewed much differently than they are now.

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It's not reasonable for your State to send in its thug troops on murder rampages. No, I agree that they should not recognise Israel until Israel goes home.

 

Things will progress towards a Palestinian State with or without Israeli approval. Hamas have no necessity to appease their invader.

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Things will progress towards a Palestinian State with or without Israeli approval. Hamas have no necessity to appease their invader.

 

 

Things will not progress in a Hamas controlled government unless they play the political game instead of the terrorist game

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Sorry if I'm stepping on toes here...

 

Since Hamas were victors in the Palestinian parliamentary elections.

 

Can they still be referred to as terrorists?

 

Unless you're referring to the original concept of the word 'terrorism' which was in fact concerned with oppressive states.....

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Can they still be referred to as terrorists?

They are in fact still terrorists and they would not be the first terrorists to hold government positions, if they end up with a "state" then they will be refered to as a government who supports terrorist actions/terrorists in much the same way the syrians and Iranian governments are refered to as.

Edited by one2gamble
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They are in fact still terrorists and they would not be the first terrorists to hold government positions, if they end up with a "state" then they will be refered to as a government who supports terrorist actions/terrorists in much the same way the syrians and Iranian governments are refered to as.

 

The first terrorists to hold government postions were the revolutionary French and the newly founded United States.

 

Are both these democratically elected nations to be still considered terrorists?

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The democratically elected governments of nations mentioned have renounced terrorism. The same thing the WORLD is asking Hamas to do at this point. Which they have not.

 

 

The US has not renounced state terrorism.

 

Guantanamo Bay.

 

 

Hamas is a democratically elected government.

 

I genuinely don't know - when was the last act of terrorism carried out by Hamas?

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according to moon 2004

August 2004. That was a self-imposed ceasefire. Abbas and Israel struck a ceasefire in February 2005, on a Tuesday. A settler murdered a Palestinian on the Wednesday. The Israelis have killed 209 Palestinians, including many children, by means of live ammunition since February 2005. Hamas haven't killed anybody.

 

Who are the terrorists ? Tell me again.

 

Remember, this government has covert nuclear weapons.

Edited by moon
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I know that term is getting thrown around a lot lately but .....

I agree, it's being abused a lot these days on both sides of the fence. Let us shall refrain from using it.

 

I

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Gitmo is terrorism....?

Well ... I would be pretty terrorised if I was just walking down the street ..kidnapped by a drug gang and sold to the US as a defacto member of Osama's bunch ...wisked off halfway round the world.... taped and wrapped in chains on a rendition flight.... then banged up and tormented without mercy or legal recompense at the Walt Disney's version of Lubyanka , with no end in sight ....

 

terrifies me .... for sure ...!

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Disagree.

 

As soon as the term is shown unequivocally to be representative of the actions of some of the supposedly 'good guys', it is to be dropped? Moon has absorbed a lot of knocks and attacks to get to this point, just for some folk to be allowed to sweep it under the carpet because they may have trouble swallowing such a bitter pill? I don't think so!

 

I hope the term 'terrorist' stays, but is at last used with a little more accuracy and honesty from now on.

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Disagree.

 

As soon as the term is shown unequivocally to be representative of the actions of some of the supposedly 'good guys', it is to be dropped? Moon has absorbed a lot of knocks and attacks to get to this point, just for some folk to be allowed to sweep it under the carpet because they may have trouble swallowing such a bitter pill? I don't think so!

 

I hope the term 'terrorist' stays, but is at last used with a little more accuracy and honesty from now on.

 

:P

 

I will drink to that, Mate!

 

:party::bubbly: :beermug: :sparkle::wub::sparkle:

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