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Gaza; The Muslim Alamo


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Not so. Hamas have clearly stated that the Israelis must withdraw to their pre-1967 borders. That is also the overwhelming consensus of the United Nations. The implication is that Hamas recognises the pre-1967 borders. That much was in your earlier link.

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What Hamas think, or intend, is the crest of the topical wave. Second-guesswork is fashionable. Factually, Hamas are the legally elected government of Palestine. France and Russia are already making diplomatic advances, and rightly so. If you believe in democracy you have to accept Hamas. Remember, nobody said a dickie-bird when Israel elected a known terrorist leader and charged war-criminal as its Prime Minister. Lol !

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The implication is that Hamas recognises the pre-1967 borders. That much was in your earlier link.

Of course they do. That simply provides Hamas a freebe; a better jumping off point for their next mission, the slaughter of every Israeli man, woman, and child and the extincton of the state of Israel.

 

Would you trust your life and the lives of those you care for to mere implications when explicit declarations are so obviously in order?

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As I said, nobody said a dickie-bird when Israel elected a known terrorist leader and charged war-criminal as its Prime Minister. Being the elected government entails certain responsibilities.

 

 

Besides, this 'fear' of Hamas has become an excuse for Israel to pillage further. This is the truth on the ground;

Posted Image

 

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/...s/landloss.html

Edited by moon
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But that leader and his military have had the proven power for a long time to slaughter every last Palestinian and have not done so. Actions, or in this case, non-actions speak louder than words.

 

In Hamas' case, I see no ambiguity at all. Their actions and words have been obvious for a long time.

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'Fact blindness' is a common enough affliction. That 'leader and his military' are primarily responsible for the current intifada and have killed far, far more Palestinians than the other way around. If you believe that 'actions speak louder than words' then why can you not see this ?

 

Hamas make no bones about their opposition to being annihilated . Just a glance at the territorial map tells why.

 

Again, it was only international condemnation and threat which prevented The Fat Assassin from slaughtering Palestinians as you suggest. This hypocrisy over Hamas is becoming very ripe in the sun.

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Have not the Palestinians and their allies resorted by neccessity to a long term stragedy of 'small' killings? Why should the Isrealis not adopt a similar tactic?

 

It just looks like the Israelis are winning. At one time or another, what facts have we not covered or am I blind to? :blink:

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For starters, the occupation is illegal. You want to justify Israeli actions while they are acting illegally ?

 

Of course the Israelis are winning. Legal opposition to them has been thwarted by the American veto and the Palestinians have been left with the role of 'terrorists'. However, Palestine is now a democracy. It has an elected government which appears impervious to bribes and it wants its land back. International law supports its claim. Hamas has held a truce since February 2005. Israel, on the other hand, has been killing Palestinians like fish in a barrel, at least ten last week alone. These are murders and you appear blind to that. Of course, if you don't give a toss about the law then the discussion is futile. The outcome will depend upon whether I kill you or you kill me.

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Well, rather than re-debate legality, sword vs UN etc, I think I'll wait and see what Hamas does. I'm glad that at least their cards are on the table now.

 

Hamas could learn a thing or 2 from Gandhi and King. Worth a try.

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What Hamas think, or intend, is the crest of the topical wave. Second-guesswork is fashionable. Factually, Hamas are the legally elected government of Palestine.

 

 

That has nothing to do with this discussion. They do in fact call for the destruction of a legal state regardless of the election. I dont have a problem with them running palestine. I have a problem with the fact that it appears as of right now that they will play politics and terrorist at the same time.

 

All they have to do in my eyes is recognize the state of Israel, remove the call for its complete destruction from its charter and then continue on with helping the palestinian people. Which assisde from the random bombing here and there they have done in the past rather well.

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Eventually, I'm inclined to think that they will. Let's talk about the sequence of events though, because that's what is holding things up. Israel are demanding that Hamas change their Charter, Hamas are demanding that Israel first withdraws. Now , as Israel invaded Palestine before Hamas drew up their Charter ( in fact before Hamas even existed ) then Israel's transgression is the most aged. Subsequently, Israel should withdraw before Hamas change their Charter. What would you say to that ?

Edited by moon
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I would say that Israel has already taken steps that have included a slow withdrawl from lands and its time for Hamas to take a step towards peace.

 

All the have to do is recognize Israels "pre 67" borders if thats what they want to do and it will be good enough for me at this point. It doesnt remove their claim to lands but it makes them diplomats instead of terrorists.

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Well, the lawyers will tell you that simply requesting Israel to withdraw to the pre-1967 borders is de facto recognition of those borders and the State of Israel. Unfortunately, somebody wants their pound of flesh.

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They sometimes put their principles before their wallets. In the case of the judgement against the Israeli wall, for example, they voted 14 to 1 against it. Only the American judge approved it. :rofl2:

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Eventually, I'm inclined to think that they will. Let's talk about the sequence of events though, because that's what is holding things up. Israel are demanding that Hamas change their Charter, Hamas are demanding that Israel first withdraws. Now , as Israel invaded Palestine before Hamas drew up their Charter ( in fact before Hamas even existed ) then Israel's transgression is the most aged. Subsequently, Israel should withdraw before Hamas change their Charter. What would you say to that ?

 

 

yes lets talk sequence of events.

 

Hamas removes the destruction of Israel from their charter and Israel does not move back to pre-1967 borders... Hamas goes back to killing them

 

Israel gives back all the land to Pre-1967 borders and Palenstine gets organized and destroys Israel. errrr oh.. sorry Israel.. better luck next time.. now we can be mad at Palestine in your honor since your all already dead... so sorry....

 

Yeah.... lets talk Sequence..... :mrsgreen:

 

Tell me what is the problem removing it from the charter unless you still feel exactly the way the charter states

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As I said, Israel's is the older transgression. Rectify the transgression and there is no need for resistance.

 

 

their charter is to destroy Israel... they dont need any trangression. They will destroy Israel before or after they move back. they have stated it time and time again

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Mr Blue steals Mr Greens car.

 

Mr Green tracks Mr Blue down to his home.

 

Mr Green starts to smash up Mr Blues car.

 

Mr Blue offers Mr Green the tyres back from the stolen car and says "ok I have made a gesture, now go away and leave me alone".

 

Mr Green insists upon having ALL of his car returned before he even considers quitting smashing up Mr Blues car.

 

Mr Green is in the right. Mr Blue is a naughty man getting justice served 'southern style' :P

Edited by Sir T Fireball
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