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Gaza; The Muslim Alamo


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JohnHill;

Gee, usually who ever wins the war keeps the land. Been that way in all of human history.

Well it's not that way anymore. Your country was one of the founding members of the legal framework which outlawed that particular primitive practise.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_conflict

Very good and unbiased article. Read all of it.

Yes, so have I, but I can't find anything to support your claim that Arab States have expelled millions of Jews. Perhaps you'd like to point it out, as you've read it too.

 

What about it? Isreal is a lawfully recognized country. Palestine is not.

You think that UN membership gives a country the right to wipe another off the map. On the contrary, UN membership takes it away.

 

Please provide a link to any article they have done that comes anywhere close to showing the Isreali side of any story.

You're sidestepping. You have to prove guilt, not Al-Jazeera its innocence.

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I think you may have shot yourself in the foot....

 

 

how?

 

I am for a palestinian state and I am for Israel observing international law. I just dont think its as cut and dry as moon makes out and as it stand the palestinians arent a state. This gives them little argument that its "their land" and it removes their ability to really argue it in front of the UN. They basically need state sponsers, which they only remotely have and none it seems have been willing to push for statehood in the UN.

Edited by one2gamble
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The law has some fuzzy edges, granted, but the underlying precepts are clear; Israel must withdraw to the pre-1967 borders, demolish its wall and empty its illegal settlements. Israel must also fulfill its obligations in respect of Resolution 194 which clearly states that Palestinian refugees must be allowed to return to their homes. Israel's UN membership is conditional upon observing the requirements of 194

All in all, the Palestinian case is very strong. Hence Israel's continued disregard of UN Resolutions and International Court rulings. Frankly, Israel is an international bandit. I think that's what this Abdullah chap is pointing out.

 

 

Edit; Yeah I can hear it now. Who cares what the Indonesians think. They don't have The Bomb.

Edited by moon
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The palestinian case may be very strong. But without statehood they wont get anywhere.

 

Even if Israel is thrown out of the UN it would do anything. It would just further remove the UN's power from dealing with Israel which at this point in time is clear that they lack anyway.

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Officially recognised by the UN, the very organisation which Israel ignores.

 

 

Edit;

The palestinian case may be very strong. But without statehood they wont get anywhere.

As your linked news article points out, there won't be a democratic Israeli State by 2020. The number of the Palestinian population will make it impossible. What happens to Israel's American support then ? Will the American people support apartheid ? I don't think so. Your own Muslim population isn't exactly shrinking.

It would be better for Israelis to comply willingly with UN Resolutions now.

Edited by moon
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America has vetoed the actions which would enable discussion of a Palestinian State, including vetoing a motion to prevent Israeli assassinations of the Palestinian leadership. Imagine that, giving the OK for State sanctioned murder.

 

Washington has refused to back the enforcement of historic UN resolutions calling on Israel to withdraw from occupied territory, and presides over an international system of double standards.

 

The latest American veto has not changed any of that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3116624.stm
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The way it 'works' is that Israel refuses to discuss a Palestinian State and America vetoes any motion of censure. It amounts to the same thing.

 

was res 194 vetoed?

194 gave Israel Statehood. Why would America veto 194 ? Edited by moon
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im not saying they would

 

what im saying is things can be openly discussed no matter what another state thinks

 

Yes everyone felt bad for the jews after the war BUT many countries were still against Israeli statehood

 

 

Americans veto many of these bills imo because of their sponser/inability to condemn both sides directly and their insesant desire to protect Israel not from international opponents but from other arab nations.

 

Many Americans do not like it and many speak out against many of these vetos. Especially at a time when we need to work on our image with arab citizens around the world. But remember one thing, the US isnt going to legitimize someone they think supports terrorism by giving him UN protection.

 

The problem at hand is huge BUT a nation needs to step up an initiate the talk of a palestinian state drawn with the 1967 borders in mind or something close to that. The "illegal" land grabs could end up as a DMZ imo in order to help prevent further attacks from either side.

Edited by one2gamble
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Well, as the first link points out, the rift is becoming ever more serious. Muslims make up one-fifth of the world's population and Gaza has become an emblem of deprivation. That's nobody's fault but the Israelis. How long do you support a country that won't support the law ?

 

This problem has existed for thousands of years, to pass the blame soley on the Isreali's after that long would not do the situation any justice. There has been alot of give and take between both sides, both have done some regretable things. You have some sort of bias against the Israeli's that I cannot understand, they were given land by the western states after the injustices of WW2, who can blame them for not wanting to give it up? Growing up in Ireland, I have a pretty unique perspective on conflict of this nature, I realize that there has been a great deal of give and take between Ireland and England and for that reason I don't harbour too much ill will towards the English right now. People will fight and die over a piece of coloured ribbon, the conflict becomes so entreanched in the cultures that people do not even realize why they fight anymore.
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This problem has existed for thousands of years, to pass the blame soley on the Isreali's after that long would not do the situation any justice.

That's incorrect , guru. We're not talking about natural spats between cultures, we're talking modern industrial-scale repression, imprisonment and population control. The conditions have only existed since the creation of an artificial State. It's a failure of colonialism.

 

Also, nobody is telling Israelis to give up Israel. They are being told to give up Palestine.

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That's incorrect , guru. We're not talking about natural spats between cultures, we're talking modern industrial-scale repression, imprisonment and population control. The conditions have only existed since the creation of an artificial State. It's a failure of colonialism.

 

Also, nobody is telling Israelis to give up Israel. They are being told to give up palestine.

 

 

palestine, the land the were 'given' after WW2. I don't know about you but it is pretty hard to fault Israel for not wanting to give up a plot of land that they were given, not to mention that it is a holy region. That being said I also can't fault the palestinians for wanting the land, nor can I fault them for being upset at the western countries for their poor judgment. The situation is unfortunate, but I cannot and will not pass the blame to the Israeli's or palestinians for a situation that the west created.

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