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Gaza; The Muslim Alamo


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In my opinion, biased towards the subjugated Arabs of the Middle East as it invariably is, Israel should accept Hamas as the legitimate elected government of Palestine and, as a result of their own forthcoming elections, select a leadership which will abide by international law and withdraw peacefully to the 1967 borders. This compliance with the law should take place while Hamas stands relatively alone upon the world stage and Israel should take pride in such an action.

 

The cavalry is coming. About a billion of them.

 

Abdullah said Western nations wanted to control the world's oil and gas, and blamed that desire along with colonialism and "the imposition of Israel upon the Arab world" for a rift with the Muslim faith.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5D1...1371E292F66.htm
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The Third Reich and its Austrian painter-and-decorator have nothing to do with it.

 

 

While our lot waffle on about 'terrorist organisations' the French and Russians have stolen the diplomatic initiative.

"We share with Russia the goal of leading Hamas toward positions that would allow for the goal of two states living in peace and security to be reached," he said.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/681159.html
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Well, the minds of suicide bombers are as irrelevant to the topic as the moustachioed munchkin. Who knows what anybody else thinks. If I did, I wouldn't be in a discussion forum.

 

 

Edit; I can guess though. A lot of people think that at least two permanent members of the Security Council accepting Hamas is somewhat against the plot, what ? :lol:

Edited by moon
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The fact of the matter is that we do not know who belongs in Israel; for centuries they have been fighting over that area, and the conflict was only heightened the western intervention after WW2. If I were Palestinian then I would be angry because, as I see it, my land were to have been stolen from me. And if I was Israeli then I would be angry because of the constant bombings and threat against sovereignty. It would be nice if there was some sort of peaceful coexistance; however, it appears neither side wants to live anywhere near the other. I cannot see this problem being sorted out peacefully; everytime they take 1 step forward, they take 50 backwards.

 

I don't see how people can be critical of one side or another though, they are both defending land they think is rightfully theirs, probably much like we would if our land was taken from us.

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"The demonisation of Islam and the vilification of Muslims, there is no denying, is widespread within mainstream Western society,"

things only become widespread if they are reenforced on society in general. Tell your people to stop acting like idiots over a cartoon and maybe we can go beyond the "vilification" of muslims.

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The thread isn't about not understanding the conflict, guru, it's about taking the correct and legal course of action before the whole thing drags down civilisation as we know it. The notion that the world would forget about Palestine and let Israel absorb it died with the advent of the Internet.

International law is clear. Israel must withdraw to the 1967 borders. I'm suggesting that that happens quickly, and willingly, before the schism that the Israelis have created gets a whole lot wider and deeper.

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Moon, you know that it isn't going to happen and even if it does happen then the problem will not be solved. The conflict has grown far greater then just another land dispute, now it is a relentless bloodlust and fundamental hatred for eachother. I am not going to take sides because quite frankly if I were put in either of their positions I would find it difficult to react any different. Both sides are doing what they believe is best for their sustainability, therefore it is highly unlikely that either will change course.

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Well, as the first link points out, the rift is becoming ever more serious. Muslims make up one-fifth of the world's population and Gaza has become an emblem of deprivation. That's nobody's fault but the Israelis. How long do you support a country that won't support the law ?

Edited by moon
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In my opinion, biased towards the subjugated Arabs of the Middle East as it invariably is, Israel should accept Hamas as the legitimate elected government of Palestine and, as a result of their own forthcoming elections, select a leadership which will abide by international law and withdraw peacefully to the 1967 borders. This compliance with the law should take place while Hamas stands relatively alone upon the world stage and Israel should take pride in such an action.

 

The cavalry is coming. About a billion of them.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5D1...1371E292F66.htm

 

 

What about Hamas recognizing the existence of Isreal? I suppose that has absolutely nothing to do with peace? Afterall, how can you have peace if you don't recognize the country you are supposed to have peace with? And how on earth do they expect Isreal to give them money if they don't exist?

 

As far as Palestine, yeah, the Palestinians got kicked out of their homes. But guess what? Since this same time, millions of Jews have been kicked out of their homes in Arab countries. Where's the outcry in that? Isreal has absorbed these misplaced Jews. Why can't these Arab nations (which there are many more of) absorb the population of the misplaced Palestinians? This sort of hypocracy makes me sick.

 

In order for peace to succeed, both sides have to want it. As of now, I don't think either side truly wants peace (not just one). There's also compromise. The concept of compromise is foreign to the Palestinian leadership (former leadership anyway), otherwise we wouldn't be in the same spot we are. They don't want peace, they want to wipe Isreal off the map. I guess that would be "peaceful" if there is no one left to fight with.

 

And I'm sorry, but how can you really believe that Al-Jazeera would be partial in any Muslim-Jewish news story?

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JohnHill;

What about Hamas recognizing the existence of Isreal?

Hamas has clearly stated that they will enter into negotiations with Israel as soon as Israel has withdrawn to the pre-1967 borders.

 

millions of Jews have been kicked out of their homes in Arab countries.

Credible links please. It's only fair that you should produce proof of newly-discovered history.

 

They don't want peace, they want to wipe Isreal off the map.

Well, Israel has been trying to wipe Palestine off the map for the past sixty years. You maybe forgot about that ?

 

And I'm sorry, but how can you really believe that Al-Jazeera would be partial in any Muslim-Jewish news story?

I think you might mean impartial. The Al-Jazeera report doesn't present any propaganda or untruths, does it ? It looks like a perfectly legitimate report from a perfectly legitimate media source, which is what it is. Would you care to indicate any bias in this article, or perhaps demonstrate how it should have been written ?

 

This sort of hypocracy makes me sick.

That implies that there are other sorts which you can comfortably live with.
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My point here ( see link) is that Palestine is a focal point for Muslim anger. We really had better do something about it. The Arabs have the law on their side and our hypocrisy is showing.

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So, are all three points excuses or just Palestine ?

 

Abdullah said Western nations wanted to control the world's oil and gas, and blamed that desire along with colonialism and "the imposition of Israel upon the Arab world" for a rift with the Muslim faith.

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colonialism?

 

Arab nations have and were given the tools to be successful countries. Few of them have. Their failures have caused a rift more than anything else mentioned.

 

Sure the west wants to control oil. Its what moves our economies. Thats business. They want to control oil also, hence their cartel OPEC. Pot meet kettle.

 

 

I do wonder if Israel was never recognized as a state if the "muslim" world would still have a problem with the large jewish population in that area. As it stood there were already a large population of Jews even before Israel. Who imposed them on that area? Who allowed them to settle there?

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The confict cannot be resolved, it is a confict over religion.

 

Israelites say: "It says in our Bible that this land belongs to us."

Palestinians say: "You're Bible doesn't matter, we were there first!"

 

It's basically a religious conflict. Score 1 for the atheists.

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I do wonder if Israel was never recognized as a state if the "muslim" world would still have a problem with the large jewish population in that area. As it stood there were already a large population of Jews even before Israel. Who imposed them on that area? Who allowed them to settle there?

They've always been there. They are the indigenous Semites, just like the Arabs. One group developed Hebrew, one group developed Arabic. They got along comparatively well until the British arrived. Pretty much the same in pre-Partition India really. The colonial Brits were good at emphasising differences.

 

Edit; And the machine-gun made madmen's dreams possible.

Edited by moon
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JohnHill;

Hamas has clearly stated that they will enter into negotiations with Israel as soon as Israel has withdrawn to the pre-1967 borders.

 

Gee, usually who ever wins the war keeps the land. Been that way in all of human history. Besides, Isreal did show a step of faith by pulling out of Gaza. And for what? Apparently the other side hasn't stepped up.

 

Credible links please. It's only fair that you should produce proof of newly-discovered history.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_conflict

Very good and unbiased article. Read all of it.

 

Well, Israel has been trying to wipe Palestine off the map for the past sixty years. You maybe forgot about that ?

 

What about it? Isreal is a lawfully recognized country. Palestine is not.

 

I think you might mean impartial.

 

Yep, sorry for the typo.

 

The Al-Jazeera report doesn't present any propaganda or untruths, does it ? It looks like a perfectly legitimate report from a perfectly legitimate media source, which is what it is. Would you care to indicate any bias in this article, or perhaps demonstrate how it should have been written ?

That implies that there are other sorts which you can comfortably live with.

 

Please provide a link to any article they have done that comes anywhere close to showing the Isreali side of any story.

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