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moon

In a democracy......

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I haven't heard of isrealis going into busy markets with bombs on themselves and killing wimen and children

 

nope ..they just run a remote controlled armoured bulldozer through a house whether the family is in it or not

 

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Edited by Tankus

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OK Bruce, I'll bite. Hamas/Palestine is wrong to use children as human bombs. Now, taking that out of the equation, on which side would you stand in this saga?

 

I don't take a side. ;) However I certainly lean a little towards the Isrealis. I understand the plight of the Palistinian people. I do not however blame Isreal for the problem. I think much of the blame has to go directly at the feet of those who have pleged to never rest until Isreal is no more. That backs Isreal against the proverbial wall. So much so that they take extreme measures. I do beleive I would take extreme measures also, if I were sitting in the middle of a region surrounded by countries and people whos goal was to end my existance. In the middle of one of the most violent and explosive regions on the planet. It is the never ending "hatred" towards the Jews that spawns the fighting. That same hatred by other countries and people in the past spawned one our worlds most dispicable crimes against other human beings.

 

This appears to have been forgotten by many, or they seem to not understand the effect it has had the Jews. The Jews have not forgotten it I am sure, and being where they are, surrounded by an equal amount or possibly even more hatred I can not blame them for not taking the same pacisfist stance that nearly wipred them completely from the European Continent.

 

When the hatred directed at them has ended, I beleive so will their aggresive behaviour towards those who vow to "exterminate" them. They surely do not forget what happened the last time their extermination was attempted.

 

When the hatred ends, so will the violence.

 

BTW I am sorry, you had quoted JoeC in your post about Isreali terrorists, I read it to quickly, and thought you were talking to me.

Edited by Bruce

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Can we first go back to what 'means' and 'devices' you're prepared to use.

For the record I was paraphrasing a certain US president who said that one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Trying to put into perspective your feeble support of the IRA - who I think have now renounced violence and now shamed all their supporters for their folly.

 

Those same methods of renounciong violence by Hamas and other Jew haters will end the violence in that region.

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Bruce, I see your point, but fail to understand why someone who is surrounded by people that want to exterminate them would be so foolish as to rattle their cages by invading their lands and murdering their people...and then cry foul when retalliated against :unsure:

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Those same methods of renounciong violence by Hamas and other Jew haters will end the violence in that region.

 

Don't understand -sorry.

 

One of your previous posts implied that you would use any 'means' or 'device' of violence to actually achieve your end.

 

Your use of the phrase 'Jew hater' is rather upsetting.

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by invading their lands and murdering their people...and then cry foul when retalliated against

please define your time line on that statement...there wasn't a palastianian people when they were given the land in '48

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Bruce, I see your point, but fail to understand why someone who is surrounded by people that want to exterminate them would be so foolish as to rattle their cages by invading their lands and murdering their people...and then cry foul when retalliated against :unsure:

 

 

cause the Arab world was about to attack anyway... kill or be killed is what happened.

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Don't understand -sorry.

 

One of your previous posts implied that you would use any 'means' or 'device' of violence to actually achieve your end.

 

Your use of the phrase 'Jew hater' is rather upsetting.

 

What do you call people who support the extermination of the Jewish people? Jew lovers? :pullhair:

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please define your time line on that statement...there wasn't a palastianian people when they were given the land in '48

 

Good point Joe. ;)

 

The Palistinians flooded into the region while it was "occupied" by Eqypt.

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The term 'Jew hater' as used in a reply to moon and myself might imply that by association we too are 'Jew haters'.

 

It brings an unsavoury angle to the debate.

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nobody refered to you or moon as jew haters, just those that want to see the extermination of the jewish race

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We will soon see how dedicated Hamas is to politics and peace. As it stands the US is about to cut off 400+ million in aid payments to the palestinians if Hamas' militant terrorist wing doesnt stand down with a denouncement of terrorism.

 

This is essential because according the palestinian authority the government cannot run without this money. Will Hamas become a resonable political party like the fatah's never could. Or will they continue to help block peace like arafat?

 

Will the Arab states pick up the slack and begin moving funds to palestine?

 

The moment of truth will soon be at hand ...

Edited by one2gamble

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The moment of truth will soon be at hand ...

Past tense. The Palestinians have just spoken as a nation. They can't be bought with 'funding', they won't accept Bush's plan to steal the West Bank and they will continue to resist invasion. They elect leaderships to fulfil these necessities, Hamas, Fatah, whoever, it doesn't matter. No amount of 'managed democracy' is going to make any difference to their legal and authentic claim to their own State and territories. Furthermore, their cause is attracting more worldwide support on a daily basis. Israel, go home.

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Israel, go home.

and where would that be? according to hamas...it's in the mediterainen sea

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from the trex link...

The interviewer pressed: "Can't you distinguish between operations against civilians and against soldiers, even from a psychological point of view?"

 

Farhat replied: "There is no difference. This is Islamic religious law. I don't invent anything. I follow Islamic religious law in this. A Muslim is very careful not to kill an innocent person, because he knows he would be destined to eternal hell. So the issue is not at all simple. We rely on Islamic religious law when we say there is no prohibition on killing these people."

 

 

hard to deal with that kinda attitude

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International law and treaty states quite clearly where 'home' is. The fuzz, smoke, blur and argument is caused by Zionist estate agents and their clients.

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that still doesn't tell me where their home will be....

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There is no truth like the truth you discover for yourself.

 

I begining to believe that you don't know either Moon

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joe;

I begining to believe that you don't know either Moon

Like it or not, there are no borders in nature. That's my understanding and I don't expect it to be shared. Naturally, it's a bonus if it is.

The law makes borders and the law is what maintains our 'thin veneer of civilisation'. Most people find it tiresome, hard to understand or, worse, at odds with what they want to believe. However, as you asked;

 

Thus after all the wars, the bloodshed, aggressions and counter-aggressions, acts of terror, reprisals, and attendant UN resolutions, nothing has changed the legal situation as it existed after Resolution 181 in 1947. The legal boundaries of Israel and Palestine remain today exactly as they were delimited in Resolution 181.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/israelborders.php

 

The Legal Boundaries of Israel in International Law

Anthony D'Amato

Leighton Professor of Law

Northwestern University School of Law

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Nothing like a liberal dose of Law to silence a thread. :lol:

 

Let's get back on down to the subjective and emotional;

 

But Mr Haniya told the Reuters news agency: "This aid cannot be a sword over the heads of the Palestinian people and will not be material to blackmail our people, to blackmail Hamas and the resistance. It is rejected."

Roughly translated, that means 'shove it' I think.

 

Israel has cast doubt on its willingness to continue to transfer customs and tax revenue, worth $50m, collected on behalf of the Palestinian Authority.

That sounds like theft, plain and simple.

 

A senior Israeli defence ministry official also said on Saturday it would not grant Hamas legislators free access between Gaza and the legislature in Ramallah the West Bank, making the governing of the divided territories more difficult.

That's just plumb begging for a response.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4657528.stm

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Can we dial it back a bit? We're all fighting lost battles here.

 

Hamas was elected democratically under American aegis so let's see what they do. And let's remember, they have little experience in that regard and they have many factions to mollify as they struggle to assume power, a struggle much more complicated and difficult than being in perpetual opposition.

 

And let's remember too, the Israeli's were once referred to as terrorists and they managed to sculpt a premonition of democracy, given the chance.

 

I

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Nothing like a liberal dose of Law to silence a thread. :lol:

 

Let's get back on down to the subjective and emotional;

Roughly translated, that means 'shove it' I think.

That sounds like theft, plain and simple.

That's just plumb begging for a response.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4657528.stm

 

Where is the law that says.........It belongs to "Palistinians"

 

I believe the law said, there would be a seperate "Arab" State.

 

I think it's sad that the leaders of Hamas will not renounce violence.

 

Mr Bush said the US would freeze aid unless Hamas renounced violence and stopped calling for Israel's destruction.

I think it's a very responsible thing to deny funds to a government that claims they will not rest until Isreal is "destroyed".

 

It is impossible to ever hope for peace any kind of peace with standing vows to destroy Isreal.

 

Would you sit at a bargaining table with me Moon, if I promised to kill you and your family, and that I would not rest until you were wiped from the face of the earth?

 

If you were a Jew, would you sit down to bargain with the likes of Hitler, Himler, and gang?

 

In essence this is what you expect the Isrealis to do. I find that totally unacceptable.

 

Because they do not say, leave the Strip and we will stop, in fact they refuse to even recant their desire to completely destroy, murder, and exterminate Isreal and the Jews no matter what.

 

Under such circumstances if I were in Isreals shoes, I would drop a big one on their heads. ;)

Edited by Bruce

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