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moon

In a democracy......

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:rofl2::rofl2:

 

Bruce,

 

I really think the World of both you and Moon!

 

I consider both of you to be Great Mates!

 

Sometimes we ALL can't SEE the Forest, because of all them bloody TREES, Mate!

 

I Hope you and Moon get back into it with a slight change of Attitude, Mate?

 

I'm off to Bed, Mate!

 

:sparkle::wub::sparkle:

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Call me a hopeless optimist but I think you're wrong there one2. First, the Palestinians are every bit as fatigued as the Israelis after sixty years of internicine bloodshed.

I

 

 

I agree that the majority of Palestinians and probably Israelis would welcome that withdraw if it ment a real peace. Unfortunately there are to many terrorist organizations that call for the destruction of Israel. They would not let up until Israel is no longer located in the Middle East.

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Undisputed Wiki good enough ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin

 

The Deir Yassin Massacre April 9th 1948

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

 

Arab League declares war May 15th 1948

I guess the UN two-state plan wasn't looking so hot, eh ?

 

 

from your first link

 

during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war[/b].

not before as was your contention.

 

If you want to site jewish aggression prior to the war you can easily site this

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

 

Though I would argue that it is no different than Hamas is now which you seem to sympathise with for some odd reason.

 

During the leadership of Haj Amin al-Husayni, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the local Arabs rebelled against the British, and attacked the growing Jewish population repeatedly. These sporadic attacks began with the riots in Palestine of 1920 and Jaffa riots (or "Hurani Riots") of 1921.

again from wiki

 

The Jewish response was clearly heavy handed but was in fact a response

 

During this period from 1936-1939, known as the Great Arab Revolt or the "Great Uprising", British forces, supported by 6,000 armed Jewish auxiliary police,[2] supressed the widespread riots with overwhelming force. This resulted in the deaths of 5,000 Palestinians and the wounding of 10,000. In total 10 per cent of the adult male population was killed, wounded, imprisoned, or exiled (see Khalidi, 2001). The Jewish population suffered 400 killed; the British 200. In another significant development during this time the British officer Charles Orde Wingate (who supported a Zionist revival for religious reasons[3]) organized Special Night Squads composed of British soldiers and Haganah volunteers, which "scored significant successes against the Arab rebels in the lower Galilee and in the Jezreel valley"[4] by conducting raids on Arab villages.

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:geezer:

 

EXCUSE Me?

 

Strapping Bombs onto Children was quite a Part of the ealier part of this Thread?

 

Not one has came up with Proof of that?

 

:pullhair::pullhair:

 

 

Better go back and check again... I said children are blowing themselves up and provided proof

 

moon then started the whole strapping bombs on children part in response to deflect that children have put bombs on themselves as I stated and proved and have blown themselves up.

 

moon continues to use the strapping bombs to children line as if me or bruce or one2 have started it. When I called him on it he told me its history and to move on.

 

so please check back on this thread if your looking for the initiator of the strapping bombs onto children comment. Since moon is the one who brought it up, maybe he should discuss proof or not.

 

I have shown the proof that I stated which was children blowing themselves up and all I can do is validate my words not his

Edited by hftmrock

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'rock;

moon continues to use the strapping bombs to children line as if me or bruce or one2 have started it. When I called him on it he told me its history and to move on.

That's because IT WAS YOU who started it, 'rock, post #21

 

'rock

They will strap bombs to little boys and girls and go on busses to blow up innocent women and children?

Geez, it's history. Move on.

Edited by moon

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joe;

here's a solution I'm sure that you'll agree with Moon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4510922.stm

Are you really sure of that, joe, or are you posting without thinking. We've got guys here who post excerpts from the funny papers as 'proof', guys who ASK for proof and then pretend they haven't seen it when it arrives, guys who see exactly the opposite of what links state and guys who post events from the nineteen thirties when we're talking about who started the 1948 war. Do you simply want to dump me in with Ahmadinejad or have you got something to add ?

Edited by moon

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can ya show the Israeli schools and where they teach it in Israel? I havent seen such classes... Of course Bruce has pointed out the teachings of Hamas....

 

Looking for a link if ya got one Tankus

 

 

 

Moon -

 

That's because IT WAS YOU who started it, 'rock, post #21

 

'rock

 

QUOTE

They will strap bombs to little boys and girls and go on busses to blow up innocent women and children?

 

And I showed where children are putting on bombs and blowing themselves up. Hamas teaches it, Hamas encourages it, Hamas wants it... To me they strapped it on.

 

And I would love to move on but you keep adding it back in the conversation.

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You're being silly, 'rock. Your posts are riddled with contradiction. I really don't want to dwell on your phantom Strappers. Move on.

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so dwell on the real children who I have shown to be blowing themselves up... I put a link on already. you never commented on them

 

 

I would never want you to dwell on phantom Strappers...

 

 

***Phantom Strappers... Sounds like a good name for a movie.... :lol:

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the early 1900's dont have anything to do with the 1948 war?

A lot of British meddling and mismanagement contributed to conditions in 1948 but the war was precipitated by the Partition Resolution. An investigation into who actually 'started' the 1948 war ought to focus on events post-1947. Prior to that there wasn't an Israel at all .

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'rock

I put a link on already. you never commented on them

From your link;

The mother of a 16-year-old suicide bomber who killed three people in Tel Aviv was in tears today...

The bomber's father, Abd al-Rahim al-Far, 54, who walks with a cane due to being shot by Israeli troops in the early days of the intifada said

LOL ! Not only was this not a child but nobody 'strapped' him and his father had been crippled earlier by the Israeli invaders. You specifically stated that third parties 'strap' bombs to 'little boys and girls. I didn't bother to comment because somebody else did.

 

 

Im sorry but you simply cannot look at events on such a narrow scale

We're looking at the straw which broke the camel's back, not the life history of the farmer who grew the straw.

 

Sure he can

That's right, I can.

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Looking for a link if ya got one Tankus

 

links as proof ....arf

 

society in general ...do you think the Jewish kids in the fortified west bank settlements ...are brought up to love the Palestinians ...?

 

no different to the Palestine ones methinks ... just the other side of the (concrete) fence

 

 

there is apartheid there

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We're looking at the straw which broke the camel's back, not the life history of the farmer who grew the straw.

excuse me but looking at the events leading up to war are just as valid as the war itself. It didnt start out of the blue because they were bored on a sunday afternoon.

 

When looking at war and conflict one doesnt simply look at the conflict itself but what lead up to the conflict. The question to be answered isnt which straw broke the camels back but why there were so many straws in the first place.

 

Sure he can

 

you sure can, but it doesnt help your argument

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Some of you folks make an abortion thread seem civil.

 

So we never have found any points of agreement on this one huh??

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excuse me but looking at the events leading up to war are just as valid as the war itself. It didnt start out of the blue because they were bored on a sunday afternoon.

 

When looking at war and conflict one doesnt simply look at the conflict itself but what lead up to the conflict. The question to be answered isnt which straw broke the camels back but why there were so many straws in the first place.

You're incorrect in this instance. Jews and Arabs have occupied Palestine together for thousands of years. Their respective communities itermingled. No doubt they had their spats, but you couldn't say that those had any effect on events leading up to the 1948 war. WWII had a profound effect because it produced many displaced persons who believed they could start afresh in Palestine. These incomers, non-indigenous peoples, upset an age-old balance. Even then there was not a full-scale war between these peoples, indigenous Jews and Arabs. What it took to precipitate a full-scale war was the creation of an artificial State within Palestine which the Arabs didn't want. It was foisted on them . So, it was the Partition Resolution, Resolution 181, which brought about the climate for war, NOT earlier events leading up to it. The British turned neighbours into enemies and the UN artificially divided them. Even then, the Arab League didn't enter into war until the very day that Israel declared Statehood. It was the creation of the Israeli State which caused the 1948 war, NOT events leading up to it, although previous events had worsened relations.

 

Volt;

So we never have found any points of agreement on this one huh??

Early days, volt. Truth is truth, whether folk can see it or not. :lol:

Edited by moon

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You're incorrect in this instance. Jews and Arabs have occupied Palestine together for thousands of years. Their respective communities itermingled. No doubt they had their spats, but you couldn't say that those had any effect on events leading up to the 1948 war.

I just posted link after link that says they in fact did. Yes they have intermingled for thousands of years. This is why we have to look at WHAT CHANGED. We do this by comparing the past with current events. Things did in fact change in the early 1900's which funamentaly altered the landscape and perceptions in that area of the world. Arab states were gaining independance and power. Arab leaders were starting to emerge and colonial powers still tried to hold on to some of their last colonies.

 

The war is only revelent to the land issue, not the conflict itself. The question was, who attacked whom first. I brought up the war to give some insight on the land grabs by the Israeli state in hopes that you may look at the situation in a different way. I showed you link after link of conflicts PREDATING the war. All of which grew in size and damage as time wore on. Sure ww2 caused a huge influx of jews into the area but they came into an area already ripe with conflict. It really only helped the Jewish people in terms of sheer numbers. If properly armed and organized the palestinians would have likely pushed the Jewish settlers/business people out completely before the Jewish state was ever founded due to the already increase in conflict.

Edited by one2gamble

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No, no fundamental changes. The fundamental change was the creation of Israel. Identify something more fundamental.

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