It's The Holidays!

[hftmrock]

Odd...we "pardon" the White House turkey, but execute a human who might or might not be a killer.

 

 

he was found guilty by the preponderance of the evidence. like it or not he was guilty according to law. We can not start questioning the judicial system for this one person.

 

And I believe if he showed remorse he would have found leniency. he denied to the end. It would be a tragedy if he was innocent but if he did it and showed no remorse... then... It would be hard to refute the result.

 

I do not believe they sentence people to die unles there is overwhelming evidence. I know they went over it many many many times. if there was something they believed was inconsistent they would have held it up.

 

I have to believe in my judicial system. I have not read everything on this but he was found guilty for the murders

[kd5]

I can't believe the guy was on death row for 24 years. They should've carried out the sentence 23 years, 11 months, and 3.5 weeks ago (based entirely on the figure of 24 years). That we paid to keep him alive all that time is a sad statement for our judicial system.

 

And sure, I miss some of the names in the original post too, but some of those people brought their banishment on themselves, even after a warning shot. Justice served IMHO. -kd5-

[The Dude]

I don't believe that anybody who has been executed in the United States was ever later confirmed innocent through DNA testing. However, that does not take into account where evidence has already been destroyed preventing DNA verification.

 

My stance is this, keep killers in prison for life who show remorse for their actions, including those who have mental illnesses and illnesses where they do not have remorse. However, those who prove to be free of mental illnesses who do not show remorse should be locked in a prison cell in resemblance of a cave, and be fed garbage scraps. Make his life a living hell, so that the hell he eventually goes to seems like heaven.

 

I use to be an avid supporter of capital punishment, but my view has changed. This is one of the few instances I am not conservative in my views despite my overall conservatism.

 

If my family was ever murdered by someone, I would however pursue their death. Call me a hypocrite, so therefore I cannot say I'm totally against it either. Therefore, I see myself as a turncoat.

 

Watch green mile and you will see where I am coming from.

 

Just my two :oreo:

Edited December 14, 2005 by The Dude

[Champion_Munch]

Am I the only one here who has no idea who that guy is/was?

 

with regards

[Joe C]

Tookie= founding father of the crypts street gang

[The Dude]

Here ya go Champion

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/03/tookie.execution.ap/

 

The crips are a rival gang of the bloods, which is an organized gang across many cities in the United States. I believe they are still the largest.

Edited December 14, 2005 by The Dude

[hftmrock]

And sure, I miss some of the names in the original post too, but some of those people brought their banishment on themselves, even after a warning shot. Justice served IMHO. -kd5-

 

Is permanent banishment without ever looking back justice? We treat criminals better because when they have served their time, they get to go back to society unless you feel their crimes deserve a life sentence.

 

People who commit crimes twice, three times, hundreds of times pay their dues in jail and then go back to society

 

And people can change. I believe in the human race and the thought that people can do better.

 

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

 

Forgiveness is a very rare trait in people!

 

 

Happy Holidays all

Edited December 14, 2005 by hftmrock

[Drovers Dog]

Is permanent banishment without ever looking back justice? We treat criminals better because when they have served their time, they get to go back to society unless you feel their crimes deserve a life sentence.

 

People who commit crimes twice, three times, hundreds of times pay their dues in jail and then go back to society

 

And people can change. I believe in the human race and the thought that people can do better.

 

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

 

Forgiveness is a very rare trait in people!

Happy Holidays all

 

 

Actually, Rock,

 

I have to say this, some Members have been Banned before and allowed back!

 

Admittedly it doesn't happen very often, but it has.

 

Some Members heed the "Warning Shot" mentioned by Kd5, (myself included), and just settle down a bit.

 

Most of the Staff here, (You will NEVER get 100% no matter What), are very tolerant and fair to the Members. It's just that some people just don't seem to know when to back off and let things cool off a bit?

 

I agree with the Principal of Amnesty, but it is some thing to be considered on a Case by Case basis, exactly the same as the Judicial System.

 

If the Ban System was not in Place, what would the Pit be Like? Having said that, we all come here to, I hope, just have some Fun, get our Computers working right, help out anyone we can, to the best of our individual abilities and have a bit of interaction with other People from all over the World. The Key is to have Fun!

 

There would be very few Members, that in the Heat of the moment have not infringed a Rule or two? I think we should be grateful that most times the Staff understand this. Usually a gentle warning is given? When that is ignored, a bit more Warning happens? Banning is the LAST Resort for the Staff.

 

I must be honest, exceptions occur to this, particularly with New Members that just want to do the Wrong Thing from Day 1. They are just crazy to do what they do, mostly without even reading the Rules. A General Amnesty would have to be applied to them as well, otherwise the Pit could be accused of discriminating?

 

If you want just a few Banned Members let back into the Pit, just remember that the Staff and Owners have Obligations as well.

 

[hftmrock]

Well said DD and for the most part I agree....

 

I just think that once banned, the person can change and they can be allowed back on a probationary period if they request it. They can always be banned again.

 

Life is too short to hold grudges or to put ourselves higher then anyone else.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to express yourself DD.. It gives me food for thought and will think about this a bit more.

 

 

Maybe I am a bit one-sided on this and there are good points in both directions.

 

 

[flyfishingrules2]

Holy. Who kidnapped DD? Or who sent him his own personal decoder ring? Could somebody send Iain one, please.

 

DD and Rock: nicely put

 

All in all, I think volt summed it up best.

 

 

Best to you all,

 

 

ffr2

[Drovers Dog]

Holy. Who kidnapped DD? Or who sent him his own personal decoder ring? Could somebody send Iain one, please.

 

DD and Rock: nicely put

 

All in all, I think volt summed it up best.

 

 

Best to you all,

 

 

ffr2

 

 

Hey Mate,

 

It is the Holiday Season, my Fleas have settled down, it is too bloody hot for them, Mate.

We are in a Heatwave here 36C, 96.8F, it is really Hot for here! Bad Storms as well!

 

Rock is looking for a Decoder Ring for Iain, Mate.

 

Maybe the Pit will sell them like the Thongs?

 

Merry Christmas, Mate!

 

 

[andromeda]

As I recall...it got so bad here that General Discussion had to be closed down...do we want that again? I sure don't! The people who are banned for misconduct are given usually many warnings so if they wanted to change and stay here, they could have but chose to continue their unruly behavior which is why they were banned...they didn't have to be banned if they would have just stopped causing trouble. Some have even come back under new names and gotten themselves banned again for Pete's sake

[hftmrock]

are you saying people cant change?

[andromeda]

are you saying people cant change?

 

No I can't say noone can change just as I can't say everyone can change Some people CANNOT change

[KansasConnection]

No I can't say noone can change just as I can't say everyone can change Some people CANNOT change

 

 

Or better still CHOOSE not to change.

[hftmrock]

so if you cant say the people cant change then whats the issue with giving them another chance. It would be probationary and can be revoked at any time.

 

Happy Holidays

[andromeda]

I say "hang 'em all and let the buzzards eat 'em" yumyum

[hftmrock]

ROFL

 

I hear that buzzards save the eyes for last... its a delicacy!

[Ian]

what would the Pit be Like?

The pit used to be a lot more fun before the rules. It was wild but very forgiving.

 

Then a lot of people signed up and that led to the necessity of some kind of rigor. Huge mistakes were made but they were fixed, sort of.

 

 

Anyway, I'm a blind optimist. I believe we'll reach many a plateau beyond the renaisscence we're enjoying now.

 

I

[TracyLynn]

Nope some people will never change. They just get worse instead of better. How many times can you give somebody enough rope to hang themselves? The people around here bent over backwards with a few and gave them alot more chances than they deserved. Should they just continue to let them be here disrupting and ruining it for others while they create some new hell daily? It went on for years with some. And I didn't see anything in their postings that indicated they ever intended to change in fact they became more pathetic with each post. So it may be bland and boring here.. but there is no drama. If this is what some folks thrive on then maybe this isn't the place to hang out. Common decency and respect go a long ways. There is one in particular that I will never feel forgiveness for. I do not forgive or forget abuse of authority and them no longer being here in a position of power is justly deserved. I've not said much about it in quite a while and I stayed out of the threads about it in the past but its becoming harder not to speak up when I see "Poor so and so" and he was so misguided and blah blah. people do make mistakes.. but going after me for no reason at all when I had never done anything to this person does not deserve a second chance at anything. What was done to me was wrong, very wrong. Let's not sugarcoat it cause I won't.

 

Some can be conned by a sad story which alot of the time was completely false and made up anyway. If you buy into they changed or they aren't the person they used to be then really you may need a reality check.

 

Its great here now. If it wasn't why still hang out here? Because there is nowhere else like the pit that's why.

 

Merry Christmas

[hftmrock]

sad commentation on the human spirit.

 

reality check or not I believe in people and that people are basically good and can change. I at least will give them a chance. In this situation it hurts nothing and has the potential to make a difference both in the person or people coming back and the site as well (IMO)

 

 

If that makes me naive, or a sucker or whatever, thats ok. I refuse to be unforgiving or black and white in my decisions.

 

Happy holidays to all

[andromeda]

but...but....but.....how many next chances do you give...as Tracy pointed out, some were allowed to cause trouble for years. With warning after warning to no avail.

 

Rock, you chose to see the best in people and that's fine if you want to keep giving people one chance after another in your life...but here we have lots of people that don't like being hurt time and time again....I for one can give a second chance but you know the old saying "fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on ME!"

[hftmrock]

but...but....but.....how many next chances do you give...as Tracy pointed out, some were allowed to cause trouble for years. With warning after warning to no avail.

 

Rock, you chose to see the best in people and that's fine if you want to keep giving people one chance after another in your life...but here we have lots of people that don't like being hurt time and time again....I for one can give a second chance but you know the old saying "fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on ME!"

 

 

people cant hurt you unless you let them

 

and no one can fool you unless you let them.

 

Allowing them back has nothing to do with that.

[cpuguru]

people cant hurt you unless you let them

 

and no one can fool you unless you let them.

 

Allowing them back has nothing to do with that.

 

Give me a break, I hope you don't actually believe that! People who are murdered are do not allow themselves to be murdered, lets keep the focus on the real problem. The problem with society is we want to assign blame where it doesn't belong, the killers are the problem and the victims are just that victims. It is like the fat person blaming McDonalds for being fat, give me a break, stop shoving cheeseburgers in your bloody mouth and you will be surprised. Tookie was the same way, sure he stopped shoving cheeseburgers in his mouth, but the damage was already to great to be repaired.

 

It is pretty sad when we try to assign the blame to the innocent victims

[kd5]

people cant hurt you unless you let them

 

and no one can fool you unless you let them.

 

Allowing them back has nothing to do with that.

So you're saying that we should allow an individual to remain an irritant, to incite riots, to cause mischief, for as long as they choose, and we should just put up with it, thicken our hides, just grin and bear it? I'm afraid history (and reality) dictates that that philosophy will never work. We have members here that cannot and/or will not ignore a taunt, and then all hell ends up breaking loose. I'm sorry, but the irritants were given a chance to become law-abiding citizens and they refused, leaving us with the only alternative of banishment. Period. End of story. They were given a second chance (and in some cases third, fourth, and fifth chances) and they abused the priviledge of that(those) chance(s) . Sorry, but the ones who were banned were banned for very good reasons, it could not and would not have happened otherwise. -kd5-