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Countrydave55

Faith Based Education Funding

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I think that this is interesting. The Republicans want to fund faith based schools and pre-schools (no surprise here) but they want to exempt these schools from laws that would ordinarily apply (such as anti discrimination laws). This is particularly interesting IMO because these same faith based organizations are actively discriminating in all sorts of ways. For example one church based Christian school expelled a child because his parents are homosexual http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050923/D8CPU38G8.html

 

Leaving aside whether homosexuals should be persecuted is this a good idea to punish a child because of his/her parents? Should we, as tax payers, pay organizations to discriminate against segments of society and presumably their otherwise innocent children?

 

Does this mean that my taxes will pay for radical fundamentalist Islamic based education? Won't this mean I will be paying people to teach people to hate me and blow me up?

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Your worries about Islamic fundalists as being a problem brought about by this seem unfounded... and kinda paranoid...

 

However, the real issue here is that our regular public schools need more funding. If they want to dump money somewhere it should be in neighborhoods were there are less income tax funds being taken in.

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As with all things, they should be careful what they wish for.

 

Independent funding leads to -- God forefend -- independent thought.

 

I

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I'd like to know where all the funding is supposed to come from "pray tell"!? As Neo stated, our public schools aren't being sufficiently funded. Posted Image

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I dont think that faith based education should be able to take place freely at all. It should be monitered very closely, as children's minds are easily influenced, and in these schools they will be taught stuff that isnt real. They won't be ready for real life, they'll go around thinking that if they just pray for something it will happen and that miracles happen just out of the blue.

 

And yes, i would be concerned about extremist groups using these schools to train recruits to "matyr themselves for Allah".

 

The indoctrination that will happen in these schools is very dangerous indeed...

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I appreciate that one may think this is paranoid belief but what specifically is paranoid about it? It isn't without precedent? The Saudi Govt. contributes to Islamic Schools that advocate violent overthrow of infidels. In the example posted you have church schools not only (presumably) teaching that homosexuality is bad but that is showing by example that intolerance is good and children of "wrong doers" should be punished for the wrong doing of their parents. There were cases in Texas of a Faith Based home for boys in which the children were beat, placed in isolation, placed in sweat boxes because "the bible says spare the rod and spoil the child". Please explain the error of my ways and I will gladly demonstrate that I harbor no delusions.

 

Corrected typo.

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Yup, I have the same attitude, i dont like faith based education at all.

 

We used to have to sing hyms at my school and i thought that was bad, i have a friend who's mum is a vicar and he cant do anything, he can barely watch anything on tv. Unbeknown to his mother, he hates religion, he is controled so much by all the religious education that he just rebels for no reason. Also, even though he doesnt really believe in all the religion, some of the indoctrination from when he was little has sunk in, he hates gays for no reason and has stange attitudes on other subjects too.

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The older I get, the more "Anti-Religious Organization" attitude I have! The beliefs they preach are sometimes so stupid! Why should my tax dollar go to funding a religion that I don't believe in? Whatever happened to separate church and state?

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I appreciate that one may think this is paranoid belief but what specifically is paranoid about it? It isn't without precedent? The Saudi Govt. contributes to Islamic Schools that advocate violent overthrow of infidels. In the example posted you have church schools not only (presumably) teaching that homosexuality is bad but that is showing by example that intolerance is good and children of "wrong doers" should be punished for the wrong doing of their parents. There were cases in Texas of a Faith Based home for boys in which the children were beat, placed in isolation, placed in sweat boxes because "the bible says spare the rod and spoil the child". Please explain the error of my ways and I will gladly demonstrate that I harbor no delusions.

 

Corrected typo.

I am just as concerned aboput violent radical Christians as I am about violent radical Muslims. I simply don't see much difference at all.

 

As for faith based education, I believe that it is unconstitutional for the government to support it in any way. As far as what laws or regulations faith based schools should have to comply with, they simply need to be the same as any other school.

 

In addition, I think the term "faith based" is a serious problem...it is a lie. The true term should be Christian based. That is the reality of what these people are pushing for.

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They won't be ready for real life, they'll go around thinking that if they just pray for something it will happen and that miracles happen just out of the blue.

Whatchu talkin bout? Many people I know have gone into and come out of Catholic schooling just fine.

 

Countrydave, you must know that funding such things is the exact opposite of what the goal is. As chop said, they meant to say "Christian based" schools.

 

Whatever happened to separate church and state?

Well your money still trusts in God. :lol:

 

I am just as concerned aboput violent radical Christians as I am about violent radical Muslims. I simply don't see much difference at all.

Took the words right out of my keyboard.

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I appreciate that Bush and Christian Organizations mean "Christian" when they say "faith" but I suspect that even Bush's packed court can not support that interpretation.

 

Besides I fully agree that faith based whether Christian, Scientology, Wicken, Satanist, or Muslim (in no particular order) should not be getting my tax dollar to support their belief system.

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Now, Now, people-- if Mr Bush hears about any little nasties going on in his faith based schools, ( and I have this on good authority) he will have his appointed commission ( the Katrina one) look into the problem as soon as they are done ( spin doctoring) investigating the FEMA inconveinence issue.

 

If you were to ask Mr Bush about faith based education, he will reply that ' faith based education is better able to train young citizens in the fight against terrorists' and those who would question that are giving the terrorists energy to continue their fight against all that is good in this country...

 

Believe it-- your President said it is so!!

 

:huh::huh:

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I went to one of the local public schools or should I say public :censored: hole.

 

Leaking ceilings, textbooks falling apart, ceiling tiles falling down, cracked floors, unsanitary locker rooms, bathrooms without towels or soap, broken windows and a big mud hole as a field.

 

See, according to the government I lived in a "high" income area. However, since it was really in the middle of nowhere and middle class there were no businesses to give us tax revenue. Therefore, we got a crap school, teachers got crap wages and didn't care and and I got a crap education.

 

I sure ain't as hell going to support that when the public schools in many of areas of the countries are in worse off condition than the state federal prisons. When I came to a New York State university they wouldn't even except my Pre-Calculus course because they felt the school taught the course inadequately despite the fact I had a B average in it.

 

Let parents pay an arm and a leg if they want their kids to be in a religious school.

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I dont think that faith based education should be able to take place freely at all. It should be monitered very closely, as children's minds are easily influenced, and in these schools they will be taught stuff that isnt real. They won't be ready for real life, they'll go around thinking that if they just pray for something it will happen and that miracles happen just out of the blue.

 

And yes, i would be concerned about extremist groups using these schools to train recruits to "matyr themselves for Allah".

 

The indoctrination that will happen in these schools is very dangerous indeed...

This is America. People have a RIGHT to send their kids to the school of their choice if they are willing to pay for it.

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I agree that tax dollars should not go to fund a relgious or private education. At the same time I do not believe it is right to tax those parents who are paying for their own kids education. They should do tax breaks instead of direct funding and vouchers.

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I agree that tax dollars should not go to fund a relgious or private education. At the same time I do not believe it is right to tax those parents who are paying for their own kids education. They should do tax breaks instead of direct funding and vouchers.

Why? They can send their kids to public schools, if they dont want to pay for it. Its their decision. Its not like we're forcing kids to go to certain schools, and forcing parents to pay for it. They chose to send their kids to those schools - they chose to pay.

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The 'faith-based' education that is scary are the home-school coops. These are the three-eyed tenticled freaks that make your average neo-con look positively benign. As a church-school survivor, and a public school graduate I have to say that while the curriculum does lean towards creationism in the science department and bible studies replace the crap that passes for philosphy or social sciences in public school, the basic skills provided were typically of a higher quality in my own church school as well as for several of my friends who had similar experiences.

 

The fact that parents are contributing directly too and are actively involved in the child's community and education are probably the most important factor. It is a bit more serious when you pay $750-$1500 (and up) a semester for Johnny to bring home a report card full of 'F's.

 

I also don't buy the argument that the poor would suffer. I don't have very much compassion for many of the 'poor' that I see complaining. I think that what is more likely is that these particular communities have not made educating their children a priority and as such the moral in their local schools system is insipid at best.

 

I also reject the argument that more money for these schools would do anygood because if a quality education truely was important it would happen. My mother is an administrator at a private church school where the tuition is fairly reasonable for that type of system, however a large portion of the students come from 1st generation immigrant families from central and south America. These people would certianly benefit from a few hundred extra bucks in their banks a month.

 

If you want to fix the problem with schools; get rid of the people who are in administrative positions now who started as teachers either to avoid Draft, or by default, or because it was an easy college degree. Get people who know how to run an NPO, and for goodness sakes hold the (non)parents responsible for at least some of their children's issues!

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