Impeaching the President

[rhizome]

Where do you get your information--Fox News?

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush issued an executive order Thursday allowing federal contractors rebuilding in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to pay below the prevailing wage.

 

In a notice to Congress, Bush said the hurricane had caused "a national emergency" that permits him to take such action under the 1931 Davis-Bacon Act in ravaged areas of Alabama, Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/08/news/econo...ina_wages.reut/

[one2gamble]

he still didnt lower anyones wage. He allowed employers to pay lower wages if there is an excess of labor supply. If your not willing to work at the wage that is being offered dont work, its as simple as that. What Bush did do was target wages to labor demand, something that most jobs do now anyway.

[rhizome]

The Davis-Bacon act prevents the government contractors from paying below prevailing wages as determined by the Treasury Department. Unemployment rates are taken into account. By suspending the Act, he is allowing companies to pay below the prevailing rate.

 

For working class families who have lost everything, this is another disaster. Ah hell, they're just poor worthless people who haven't got anything--screw 'em. For George Bush's friends like Halliburton, there are no-bid and cost-plus contracts--quite the windfall to those corporations preying on the working families' misfortune.

 

Yeah, that George Bush, he's just too generous, isn't he?

[moon]

If your not willing to work at the wage that is being offered dont work, its as simple as that.

Isn't that what they pulled in the Depression ?

[invision]

doesnt look good for bush at all

 

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050920/ap_on_...na_bush_ap_poll

[Chopdoc]

The Davis-Bacon act prevents the government contractors from paying below prevailing wages as determined by the Treasury Department. Unemployment rates are taken into account. By suspending the Act, he is allowing companies to pay below the prevailing rate.

 

For working class families who have lost everything, this is another disaster. Ah hell, they're just poor worthless people who haven't got anything--screw 'em. For George Bush's friends like Halliburton, there are no-bid and cost-plus contracts--quite the windfall to those corporations preying on the working families' misfortune.

 

Yeah, that George Bush, he's just too generous, isn't he?

I think you are neglecting the huge influx of profiteers. Yes, that includes working class folks. I have been speaking to people every day that are planning to make big bucks off of the hardship of others down there. They are in IT and telecom.

 

 

As far as suspending the Act, I can see a very strong argument in doing so. Artificially guiding economics is something that is as yet an overall failure in this world as demonstrated consistently. Controlling wages, prices, etc, is not any kind of solution. There are of course exceptions like actions preventing price gouging etc.

 

The majority of the work force needed to rebuild will have to be imported. There simply isn't enough of a work force in place in the various trades needed to allow for a complete rebuild in any reasonable time frame. In fact there are many who are counting on exactly that fact for a winfall. I spoke to one of them over lunch today.

 

I think that in the circumstances of the aftermath of such a severe disaster it is even more important to let natural economics take their course in such matters as wages and inject funding carefully. After all, even in the best of times the ability of governments to manipulate economics has been ultimately a failure...and that is in the best of times, not in the aftermath of such a disaster when so much is in turmoil.

[Chopdoc]

Isn't that what they pulled in the Depression ?

The Great Depression? I don't think so. Besides....who is this etherial "they"?

[Neo X1]

Isn't that what they pulled in the Depression ?

Exactly.

 

I always find it interesting when those who subscribe to the "trickle-down effect" and "capitalism balances itself out" mantras casually disregard the fact that someone tried the same stupid thing in the past and it resulted in a catastrophe. If you don't know where you came from, how dare you try to lead us.

Edited September 20, 2005 by Neo X1

[Neo X1]

As far as suspending the Act, I can see a very strong argument in doing so.  Artificially guiding economics is something that is as yet an overall failure in this world as demonstrated consistently.  Controlling wages, prices, etc, is not any kind of solution.  There are of course exceptions like actions preventing price gouging etc.

Without a minimum wage the gap between the rich and the poor would be challenged only by the grand canyon.

 

EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

FOR THOSE WHO REFUSE TO READ THE QUOTE: I PROVIDED MINIMUM WAGE AS AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT CONTROLS "wages, prices, etc." AND IS A NECCESSITY. ITS NOT A HARD CONCEPT PEOPLE!

Edited September 20, 2005 by Neo X1

[Chopdoc]

Are we talking about the same history? The same economics?

 

1929....economic crash......

[Neo X1]

Are we talking about the same history? The same economics?

 

1929....economic crash......

It wasn't the cause of it, as we all know (I hope). But the same stupidity was happening at the time, lol.

[moon]

Besides....who is this etherial "they"?

They ? They're the ones who stole folk's farms, recruited by megaphone and booted drifters off freights. I thought everybody knew that.

[Chopdoc]

Without a minimum wage the gap between the rich and the poor would be challenged only by the grand canyon.

This isn't about minimum wage by any stretch.

[Neo X1]

They ?  They're the ones who stole folk's farms,  recruited by megaphone and booted drifters off freights.  I thought everybody knew that.

Instead of "they"... we from here on in refer to "them" as "The Man".

 

 

 

This isn't about minimum wage by any stretch.

Way to go, using my statement out of context.

 

Seperate what I said from the main path of conversation and apply it directly to what I quoted when I said it.

Edited September 20, 2005 by Neo X1

[Chopdoc]

Interesting that the same "theys" are still around on the "other side" but not on one's own side......are "they" immortal?

 

Where are the neo FDR Democrats when we need them? They are out there, but sadly seem to be fading away.....

[Neo X1]

Interesting that the same "theys" are still around on the "other side" but not on one's own side......are "they" immortal?

"The Man" is so busy he doeesn't have time to die. :help:

[Jakeofalltrades]

Regardless of the circumstance under which Clinton and Bush lied, Bush's lies were far more serious and destructive. Clinton's sex life had nothing to do with war, economy, and death. They actually did consider impeaching Clinton because of something that not only didn't concern his presidency or the nation, but was entirely within his own moral and personal boundaries. There is of course the matter of Gore's potential presidency over Bush had Clinton been impeached, but then, he didn't seem like such a trustworthy candidate either. My biggest concern is how utterly wasteful Bush is with our resources, and he doesn't seem to aknowledge that there IS a limit and he needs to be more conservative! Gas prices are being taxed outrageously, and this is partially, if not mostly, due to the fact that Bush makes his money on oil. Alot of people don't actually realize right now how badly our economy has suffered. A depression is not only inevitable, but just around the corner.

[Chopdoc]

"The Man" is so busy he doeesn't have time to die. :help:

 

Yes...I know what you mean.

 

I think that identifying that schism is more a part of the problem than the solution though...and that it really does not exist.

[Chopdoc]

Regardless of the circumstance under which Clinton and Bush lied, Bush's lies were far more serious and destructive. Clinton's sex life had nothing to do with war, economy, and death. They actually did consider impeaching Clinton because of something that not only didn't concern his presidency or the nation, but was entirely within his own moral and personal boundaries. There is of course the matter of Gore's potential presidency over Bush had Clinton been impeached, but then, he didn't seem like such a trustworthy candidate either. My biggest concern is how utterly wasteful Bush is with our resources, and he doesn't seem to aknowledge that there IS a limit and he needs to be more conservative! Gas prices are being taxed outrageously, and this is partially, if not mostly, due to the fact that Bush makes his money on oil. Alot of people don't actually realize right now how badly our economy has suffered. A depression is not only inevitable, but just around the corner.

But you are saying Bush lied when there is no basis for that except hype.

[FrankenBox]

I don't know the concise facts behind every facet of this argument, but I have heard enough thrusts and posits by each side to be rather jaded at this point by either side- incidentally the "facts" that I have heard have generally turned out to be highly biased suppositions and confabulations when I am bothered enough to do the lookup.... Doc has infinately more patience than I in this area.

 

I just don't care at this point who is right and who is wrong on this bevy of issues. I don't think there is a dicernable difference between the mainstream parties at this point- they are both equally flacid, decrepid, and decadent in my opinion.

 

Science has been subverted and twisted, God's name has been sullied, and normal everyday concerne for fellow human beings has been thoroughly trampled on by both sides of the aisle for the last 16 years and I am sick of it.

 

If there is anyone at fault for the charicature of what we have for a federal system it is you and I for letting these people stay in. We are perfectly happy to point fingers when the other guy is being a jackass, but when our own pork-barrel is threatened we justify the corruption with righteous zeal.

 

Economy, Foreign Policy, Environment, Quality of Life, etc are all symptoms that people are being distracted by and attacking. None of these issues are black and white in their solution- and none directly address the nexus of the problem.

 

 

 

I for one will no longer be voting for "dumb & dumber" candidates- I have been hoodwinked enough; - I will "throw away" my vote on the guy I think is best for the job even if he is not one of the big two, or voting "none of the above" if I don't have that choice.

[Jakeofalltrades]

But you are saying Bush lied when there is no basis for that except hype.

The fact that Bush has lied on numerous occassions isn't hype my friend, it's stone cold reality. A simple google search will provide you with boundless resources of information supporting this.

 

Bush's Lies

 

Of course, lieing is just a small part of Bush's damage and it doesn't effect me personally because I've never actually believed anything he's said anyway. His reckless tactics and wastefulness is enough for me to gag, but it doesn't end there either. He's as careless as he is reckless, and he uses a deceptive facade to make a number of people think otherwise.

[moon]

Anybody fancy eDemocracy yet ?

[Jakeofalltrades]

Anybody fancy eDemocracy yet ?

I don't fancy anything that begins with "e"!

[The1PatO]

Ok.. so we have been lied to about a war that didnt really need to happen.

We have had minimal help (well South Eastern America has) with Katrina from Bush and the rest of his family until he decided to come off his vacation again.

Gas prices have risen so high that its either food, gas, or medicine for most folks.

 

Now, im not saying what President Clinton did was right by ANY means, but they tried to impeach him for lying about having sexual relations with an intern, but we dont have the means to try to impeach Bush?

 

A lie is a lie...no matter what!

 

Personally i would love to see them try to impeach him and it actually happen! Enough is enough of the crap us Americans have had to deal with from him. How much more could he mess up???

first of all, most americans obviously don't support impeaching the president. most americans voted for him. second, he did not lie, people can lie and say that he lied all they want, but it simply wasn't a lie.

 

look at this scenario:

 

I tell you that this guy over here has a gun. He's shot countless people before and still hasn't been reprimanded for it. he's also tried to rape a person before (kuwait being that person). you're the chief of police, I tell you he's ready and willing to shoot people and has the means (he's telling you he's ready and willing to shoot people and he has the means). he's supporting gang activity. he's done horrible things before and hasn't been caught, what do you do?

 

 

next: what control should the president have over gas prices food and medicine? none. this is a free market economy, you cannot blame him for the high prices or low quality of those items. that'd be like blaming the mayor because the butcher shop sold you a steak that made you sick.

[moon]

I don't fancy anything that begins with "e"! 

OK. I'll tell Erica.

Edited September 20, 2005 by moon