Far Graver Than Viet Nam in General Discussions Posted September 28, 2004 I am not surprised that that there are outsiders fighting with Iraqis. Their were Americans fighting with Afghanis against the Soviet Union. If the US were invaded I would hope that some Canadians, Aussies, Brits would take up arms and fight along side of us. You seem to think that the bloody aspect is the determining factor. "Once people taiste freedom stability and modernization why do you think they would tolerate constant bloodshed." That is not supported by history. There was less bloodshed in Hussein's Iraqi than in the present Iraq. Afghan under the tallibahn had little bloodshed. Saudi Arabia is not a democracy and it has little bloodshed. Bloodshed is essentially independent of the type of government. I think that the significant variable that you are missing is economic opportunity. Democracy does not feed the hungry. Democracy may foster economic opportunity but it is not sufficient. Russia is moving away from democracy. Germany had a democracy and modernization before Hitler. This neoCon belief in the holy grail of democracy does not stand the test of history.